Where have all the good times gone????

Old school Van Halen fans may remember that song.


The Broncos have been a big part of my life since I was a kid. Since my friends and I have family's and other priority's it's hard to go knock back a few adult beverages and BS about the Broncos so this is how I get my fix. Honestly, this board is abysmal right now. I'm not pointing out anyone poster or a group for that matter. There are just a handful of consistent posters now. This is normally a slower time for posting but this is ridiculous.


Yes; I'm going to to talk Tebow and the Broncos QB situation because it is by far the biggest source of Bronco Nations strife. (Especially on here) I didn't make up or pick and choose stats to support my argument but rather I based my opinion off his total stats and what I actually saw with my own two eyes. He regressed the last five weeks. He did have a good game against the Steelers (I even got carried away) but even adding that game into the final 5 he was 41% passing 49 of 120, 3 TD's 4 INT's, and a 63.46 QB rating. He also had 4 rushing TD's but 5 fumbles. With the defenses he is seeing he should have much better numbers even as a "Rookie". They are daring him to throw and he is still the worst throwing QB in the NFL. It really is funny (to some) how the loses are on the rest of the team but Tebow got them to the playoffs with his wins. Another Tebow-ism is that some kill the rest of the team or coaches to prop Tebow up. While some points are absolutely legit, here is an example. TE's can be running WIDE open yet we need to draft some because our QB didn't throw them the ball? In all honesty if he had progressed I would be in the optimistic camp. Can he learn and improve? We all have been told and probably even told others that we can do whatever we want to and be who we want to if we work hard enough. While it's a great message and one that I mostly believe, those that are old enough to have life experience know differently. I have a good friend that is 5' 6" and a heck of a basketball player. I guarantee you that he can't play center at the NBA level. Heck not even on the varsity HS level. In other words no matter how hard a dog wants to become a cat, he won't be able to pull it off. Of course I'm using hyperbole to make a point, but just because you're young and work hard doesn't automatically mean that you're guaranteed success as some may have you believe. He has a long way to go just to get to average let alone very good. Another argument is that he could in college. That doesn't carry a lot of weight in the pros or Timmy Chang and Ken Dorsey would have been studs. If you say something like that, all the sudden you aren't a Broncos fan or you are a Tebow hater. Simply not true. Am I making stuff up or saying anything that isn't true? If you think I'm being too tough on the guy just because I'm actually using all of his stats, not just a sample (and what I have seen on the field) I guess that in itself says a lot. But unfortunately you you to preemptively post because some knucklehead will say, your just a..... The best thing is for the Broncos if the kid can play. I don't think he can for the reasons I just explained. It's no coincidence that the last 9 Super Bowl winning QB's have been elite and 17 or the last 19 were elite QB's as well. I just don't see Tebow getting to that level. As Cali said on another thread, you can't even say that without being designated a hater or worse. He is a special human being so I guess to a degree I can understand all the emotion around his supporters but that doesn't make him a great NFL QB nor does it make me like him less as a human being. I'm a Bronco fan therefore a Tebow fan. I hope I'm wrong and it will be some of the sweetest crow I ever ate.


I have a friend who is a huge Bronco fan who said a few months ago that in a way Tebow was the worst thing to happen to the Broncos. You can certainly make a strong argument for McDaniels but the QB controversy (Tebow or Orton) has was deeply divided the fan base. It's worse than politics around here. At the SB party I was at, of course, Tebow was the main source of conversation. I friend of mine who is a big Tebow fan said himself that if the Broncos had more options that Tebow probably wouldn't be here. On the ESPN pre-game Steve Young said the Broncos don't have a choice but to start Tebow or the fans will storm the castle. To which Dilfer replied; that is a horrible way to run a franchise and TJ agreed. Von Miller wins DROY and there is barely a peep about it locally or nationally. But where and what Tebow is doing at 9:37 on a Tuesday night is on every news wire from NY to California. I used to joke about the Denver "Tebow's" but it really is true.......


I posted this (in particularly Tebow) to try to explain why I feel the boards are a mess. I'm not trying to sway any Tebow fan, I would have a better chance turning water into..... We can certainly disagree on whether he will be a good NFL QB but it gets really old being called hater and worse because you aren't on board or "all in" with a QB that still has a big question mark over his head. It has also just killed the spirit of his board and that is a real shame. I'm all about winning SB's and I just don't believe Tebow can play at that level. Yes, I would like to see the Broncos move Tebow. It isn't at all because I don't like him. I believe his value will never be higher then it is right now especially for the Jags which would also like him because of other factors. The longer he starts at QB for the Broncos the longer it will be before we win another SB. As I said I certainly hope I'm wrong if he is the starter for the Broncos. But I have come to realize that the longer he is here, the longer the fan base will be deeply divided. That is until he either falls flat or he wins Championships and unfortunately that may not stop the divide. It really sucks that something that used to be a great resource for Broncos fans has turned into this.....

Great post HOF. IMO the whole divide started even before Tebow. The Orton debate took its toll. It was impossible to critique the team because "it was all Orton's fault". Now it's the exact opposite and it's everyone's fault but Tebow's. Your friend is right......we are in a really bad spot. The way I look at it may be a bit controversial but IMO it makes sense. We succeeded to a point this year because the style of offense we played masked a horrible pass protecting o-line. We were forced to run it not so much to mask the line but because of Tebow's limitations. Winning, while fun, set this franchise back big time. Now we are left with a much later draft pick than equates to the strength of our team, a tougher schedule and a false sense of hope. Nothing was fixed on offense and in order to compete next year we need to boost our D to keep games close. I think the Tebow experiment is retarding the growth of this team and the young offensive skill players we have.

This board went to Hell the moment Josh McDaniels tried/talked/flirted/discussed trading Jay Cutler. Maybe it is just me but I feel things are much MUCH more lighter now. I mean, for crying out loud, Travis and I had a 10 page thread arguing about the 3-4 defense!

Also, on a personal note, I would like to add that I can't recall a single time when I felt worst about the Broncos in the past 10 years or so, than when that trade ocurred. I felt devastated and disenchanted. However, I can't remember a more hopeful time than now and I am NOT a Tim Tebow apologist. I really hate the idea of a first round QB that can't throw a spiral but John Elway already said that he was going to work with him in the offseason. Call me naive, but that was all I needed to keep my hope high and that has A LOT to do about Elway and HIS skills as an executive (3 starters plus the D-ROY on his first draft and a pro bowler out of his free agents) and very little to do about Tebow. 

Jl13-

  I have to agree with you about feeling hopeful. We won the AFC West with some smoke and mirrors but also EFX getting the right players and putting them in positions to be successful. There is a lot there to build upon.

  I would not be surprised to see us take a step back next year. Our schedule will be difficult and we won't be sneaking up on teams. However, we are somewhat a young team, especially on offense, and this year being together, should only make us that much better.

  Realistically, we are probably 2-3 years away from being a SERIOUS contender. But, it's very nice to see that on the horizon, unlike a few years ago.

I agree with you guys 100%.

Wouldn't it be reasonable to allow the off season and working with Elway and the other coaches before a final judgement is made on Tebow? I'm NOT a big fan of his but There have been very few QB's with less than 2 years playing experience that have lit the world on fire. Steve Young was horrible his first 3 years. He was much like Tebow is today and Young turned out OK.

I think it fair to give Tebow the opportunity to work with Elway this off season and see what improvement there is. Then it will be up to Elway and Fox to make the decision whether to keep him or not.

That's how I feel anyway.

Steve Young was horrible his first 3 years.

He also played for the woeful Bucs.  And it's not like there was free agency in those days.  Usually if a team was dreadful, they stayed dreadful for years.  Besides, you gotta look at the here and now.  Look at the QBs that have come out recently.  It's a much fairer barometer because the rules in the passing game are so different in comparison to years and years ago.

Wouldn't it be reasonable to allow the off season and working with Elway and the other coaches before a final judgement is made on Tebow?

This can be dabted all day/week/month/year obviously. He's been throwing the football for YEARS. He got the starting reps for 14 weeks including the playoffs. The is no magical way to make him better. Sure he might improve but thats like saying a fat dude can lose 10 lbs by cutting out soda. Its not the answer.

debated....

Sure he might improve but thats like saying a fat dude can lose 10 lbs by cutting out soda.

I lost 20 by switching to diet. 

Sure he might improve but thats like saying a fat dude can lose 10 lbs by cutting out soda.

I lost 20 by switching to diet. 

LOL....try the new "Bacon Milk Shake" at Jack in the Box.........the puking afteward has to account for at least 3-5 more pounds.

Haven't seen a Jack in the Box since I was 7 and left Downey for Maryland.  24 hour tacos?  Yes please. 

debated....

 Regurgitated.

Regurgitated.

Repeatedly

Repeatedly

Sort of like the "Team America" puppet... hahaha.. complete with the music!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C29ZSqLRJzU 

Sort of like the "Team America" puppet... hahaha.. complete with the music!

That looked like how I felt after the Christmas Eve Massacre in Buffalo.

And, I figure now is as good a time as any to chime in on the topic of the original post by HOF.

I have said it numerous times, but I don't get much of an answer....."Why is it that every other player on the team is thrown under the bus when we talk about Mr. Tebow?" To me, it is the exact opposite of the Kyle Orton debate.

"Tebow would be great, if the WRs knew how to catch."

"Our WRs are great, but Orton can't get them the bal."

"The O-line sucks, therefore Tebow can't get in a rhythm."

"Orton sucks and he is making our O-line look bad because he is a statue."

Same players, with the exception of the QBs, but completely reversed arguments. I know the whole part about him being young and Orton being a vet. That I can agree with. But it seems that you can't post anything that even approaches negativity about 15 without having your fanhood or your football I.Q. questioned. It makes no sense to me.

I may be a bit naieve, but I am pretty sure that most people on this board have the best interests of the Denver Broncos in mind. In the end, we all want the same thing, which I see as consistent play out of the WHOLE TEAM that leads to us being a serious Super Bowl contender for the long term with or without Tebow, correct?

So, then what is the problem?

As to J's comment about this board becoming a mess with the hiring of Josh McDaniels, I agree. That was the move that got the spitstorm started. Then we traded baby Jay and that got it even more fired up....then drafting the most polarizing player in the NFL....well that seems to have drawn the line in the sand, in my opinion.

As usual....Go Broncos!

Same players, with the exception of the QBs, but completely reversed arguments. I know the whole part about him being young and Orton being a vet. That I can agree with. But it seems that you can't post anything that even approaches negativity about 15 without having your fanhood or your football I.Q. questioned. It makes no sense to me.

It's the hypocrisy of every irrational Tebow fanatic.  If anything, I see the Orton supporters being much more consistant than the majority of Tebow supporters.  We said the O-line sucked at the beginning of the season and never really wavered.  The problem was the period of time when Tebow didn't need to throw.  When Denver was winning by running the ball 45+ times a game.  The change in gameplan allowed the O-line to play to their strengths.  It also allowed Tebow to play to his.  When Tebow needed to start tossing the ball, the O-line regressed back to what it was at the beginning of the season.  Their inability to pass block was glaring.  Tebow's inability to make quick decisions when dropping back was glaring.  But, you're right.  Tebow has gotten a huge pass for his regression as the season progressed (Steeler game aside.)

I may be a bit naieve, but I am pretty sure that most people on this board have the best interests of the Denver Broncos in mind. In the end, we all want the same thing, which I see as consistent play out of the WHOLE TEAM that leads to us being a serious Super Bowl contender for the long term with or without Tebow, correct?

Definitely not naive, but I think you should clarify a tad.  Most people on this board that are true Broncos fans have the best interests in mind.  The problem is that, once Tebow got drafted, an influx of Gators fans and Tebow fans became Broncos "fans."  This changed the dynamic of our board.  Suddenly guys like Jagsbch were all over our boards bellowing about how Tebow was being misused because Tebow's success is all that they cared about.

then drafting the most polarizing player in the NFL....well that seems to have drawn the line in the sand, in my opinion.

You know what they say.  There's three topics you don't talk about if you want to avoid an argument.  Religion, politics, and Tebow. 

Definitely not naive, but I think you should clarify a tad.  Most people on this board that are true Broncos fans have the best interests in mind.  The problem is that, once Tebow got drafted, an influx of Gators fans and Tebow fans became Broncos "fans."  This changed the dynamic of our board.  Suddenly guys like Jagsbch were all over our boards bellowing about how Tebow was being misused because Tebow's success is all that they cared about.

Think this pretty well defines the problem on the whole. However, there are a few who liked the Tebow pick without being Gator fans. I can't say I was/am against the pick, even in the first round but am realistic enough to understand that there are limits as to how far the Broncos go before they replace Tebow. Personally, I don't think that point has been reached yet so will continue to defend Tim until that time comes. Say the end of next season.

This board went to Hell the moment Josh McDaniels...

Perfectly stated.