Burnett and the Pirates

Multiple rumors/sources reporting that the Yanks and Pirates have reopened some talk about Burnett moving to the Pirates.  They had check in on him in the early winter and at the time, the Yanks were not willing to eat enough of the remaining dollars to make this happen.  Things have obviously changed with the additions of Pineda and Kuroda making Burnett the most obvious to try to move.  I doubt the Yanks will get much for him and they will most likely need to eat at least $20-25 million of the $33 million left.  To me, he needs to go just because there are very few supporters left for him among the fan base.  Most of those is his own doing, some of that is expectations to go along with the contract he signed and the rest of it is just our impatience with his inconsistency.

Pittsburgh needs one more starter and they badly need a durable innings-eater.  Burnett could be helped by a move back to the NL and he has been very durable.  Since the Pirates have Erik Bedard penciled in the rotation, they need someone else to be able to guarantee them 30+ starts.  THe Pirates are also not on Burnett's limited no-trade list.  No matter how you slice it, the Yanks are eating at least 75% of this contract---which would free up $8-9 million over the next two years to add a bat.  But before the Yanks go back to Damon, Matsui, Ibanez, maybe there are options on the Pirates..

What can the Yanks get back from the Pirates?  An interesting option (which would require the Yanks to add to the deal) would be Garrett Jones.   His SO rate is on the high side, but he plays the OF and 1B and is a lefty hitter at 30 years old who is not a FA until 2016.  He has some power and is a gap hitter.  Not the worst return.   Another less fulfilling option, but a guy who is a couple of years removed from great success is Nate McLouth.  I know he has been injured and horrible the last couple of years, but he had flashes of his old self last year, was a 20+ homer guy and still has a good OBP. 

The Pirates were one of the finalists for Edwin Jackson and were offering him $11 million/year for 3 years.  I don't pretend that Burnett is Jackson, but he is worth pitching at a $4 million/year for them for two years or the equivalent of the Yanks picking up $25 million.  If the YAnks can convince them he is worth $5-$6 million, then the price drops.  They are giving Erik Bedard $5 million guaranteed and the guy has barely pitched 100 innings.

Food for thought.  If there is a taker, I say work to see it through to the end.  Only other one that makes sense is Burnett for Bay. I just think that could be next off-season's plan and not the first choice for this one

If there is a taker, I say work to see it through to the end.

I second that idea. If the Yankees could get anything or anyone to take on a portion of his salary dump him.

It's clearly time to move on for both sides.  He might actually be decent in the void that is the NL Central (no more Pujols or Fielder).  The NL in general is really weak offensively with some big ballparks so he might have a nice "bounce back" year.

Dcone.. Good thread here... But there are a few quesitons begging to be asked first...

First...  You and I are on the same page here when it comes to AJ... No love lost for a guy who is becoming the next Carl Pavano for this franchise.. I was never in favor of this signing from day one!..

But, why do you think AJ has struggled?.. No mention of arm or shoulder issues... No mechanical issues or at least none  I read of... but then again I am no pitching guru or coach that picks up on this while watching him pitch..

The Yankees invested a boat load on money on another bad FA signing.. Only because while with the Jays he kicked our butts everytime we faced him.. Every Yankee fan on this board knew this but yet wanted this damaged package simply because they all felt he would do it to other teams... Well. we all know how that turned out so far!..

Now ask this.. What other team in baseball would agree to the terms your thinking on here.. Eating nearly 33mm of a players contract not to play on our team?? Again, why would the Yankees do this?. and if they did, they better lower those ticket prices the next time I come to NY this summer and attend a game!!

If AJ is healthy and his mechanics are fine volicity is there, where is the issue?... Yes.. Control.. Now who's job is it to get that straighten out?? Right, the pitching coach!!...

There is a guy name Leo Mazzone who begged to be the next NY Yankee pitching coach but was snubed of the position... I wanted this guy on our side so bad.... Now I still beleive Mazzone is out of baseball since his release with the O's.... If not, then once again we lost the best pitching coach in Baseball....

Maybe the Yankees should suck it up and ask him to work with AJ this spring and see what the issues really are with this guy?... Really... How much could that cost the yankees to pay?.. Certainly not 33 million dollars.... In his final year with the Jays, I remember the interview AJ did with Mike on WFAN about how he credited Doc Halladay with getting his game back on track and his workout schedule... Ahhhh excuse me for asking, but where is that workout schedule been for the past two and half seasons AJ??>>


Ok... Now.. if by the Grace of God, the cash man wakes up and decides to move AJ, and Pittsburgh comes to its senses and lays out say 25mm of the 33mm owed, who do we get in return that has an immediate impact for us?...  No way are they giving up any of those young kids making less than a 1million dollars..  Thats why they are the Pirates, they can finally compete with all those bad years and high draft picks that are paying dividends today... Sounds like a team we all know?.. Yes the Rays 5 years ago!.

If they trade AJ to bucs, then give me a player that will a postion player to replace either A-Rod at third or Gardner at some point during the season and plattoon him in the DH spot... I dont want some 4A player I want a kid now who is playing and has produced for the bucs the past two seasons... Someone we can look to the future who will be here in 4 or 5 years still and build around him as a long term replacement.. Enough of this fill and plug nonsense this franchis has been doing since 2002... Start building for the future or we will lose the battle  in FA that once was only dominated by this franchise!!!  good post.. gave you 5 stars!!...

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The money s not an issue since the Yanks would have to pay it no matter what.  Burnett is useless if he's not in the rotation and they simply don't have room for him.

@DG...... The media will have a field day if Cashman opts this way... I am in your corner and beleive me, I would persoanlly drive AJ to his next team... AJ is a bust of a signing, but its not like most of us didnt see this coming a few years ago...... But, honestly, like it or not, until some one offers to pick up a big chuck of that contract, not a snowball's chance in hell is he moving without some value in return.... Either we get a box of used baseballs for AJ and the team eats that contract, or Cashman is going to have to suck it up and hold AJ until the Yankees find a trade partner that gives us a hitter in return with equal or near equal contract value...    

The front office might as well look at some other option that packages AJ and disguises the trade as a need to aquire a younger player who plays third base and let A-ROD dh full time... If not,, AJ in the 5 hole!. You, me and the rest of the Yankee fans are going to be crying watching him pitch in 2012!..

I think this is a great topic because it is one of the few question marks left heading into Spring Training. Fans, coaches, and maybe even AJ himself, would probably admit they expected much more from Burnett in New York. At this point he doesn't seem to have a role on the team, as the Rotation is now restocked and the bullpen doesn't seem like a good fit. I agree it is time to part ways, eat up whatever contract necessary, and move on.

However I do want to defend AJ to an extent. Perhaps even pitch a case to any potential suitors, like the Pirates. As much as he under performed in New York for the money we spent it is easy to put him in with guys like Pavano, Nady, or Igawa. I cant help but feel Burnett was different than these guys because of some unique intangibles. We all know him as the "Pie Guy" who would welcome the "Walk Off Heroes" with a face full of pie after the game. Stuff like that is what helped the aging Yankees relax and be the ballplayers they were signed to be. We all know how that 09' team finished the season. This is an aspect that the new young players have picked up and they will be able to build off of long after Burnett is gone. I also admired the attitude the guy had (to an extent). Whenever Girardi came to that mound he would always say hes good and hated to be taken out. Most of the time he didnt have much of an argument because of his performance, but you could tell he wanted to give the team all he had. He would even get emotional and defensive because he was well aware of the expectations for him but he couldn't comprehend why he wasn't performing. If there's a pitching coach who can find out what AJ is missing they should take the chance. We have seen glimpses of that devastating curve. AJ has talent, he has heart, and we all know he has a personality.

This may simply be a case where the AL or New York was just too much for the guy. If an NL team is willing to take a chance, Yanks should make it happen.

Bottom line...and it's been said to death:  AJ needs a new start as much as we wish it for him.  I was duped along with everyone else when the Yanks signed him and vividly remember thinking how I'd much rather have him than Derek Lowe and was glad the Yanks outbid the Braves for him.  That being said, I didn't like the 5 year plan because he really had not been that consistent and, much like Pavano, he essentially cashed in on 1 good year.   The guy has a mental problem that is not something that a pitching coach can necessarily cure.  If you think back over the past three years, he's changed his arm angle, his hand location from the set, his stride length, etc, etc and what do we see?  It works for 1 or 2 starts and then he reverts back to bad habits.  He is what he is:  a .500 pitcher.  If he was making $4 million/year and was our 5th starter, we wouldn't care, but when he is the 2nd highest paid pitcher on the team, we expect that he pitches like one.  That is the problem, ladies and gentlemen.  We've EXPECTED more because in life we are told that you get what you pay for.  Well, we are not getting what we should based on the salary he earns.   He is not a #2-- he is a #4 or #5.   I personally thought he would have been a good fit for the Nationals this off-season because of his ties to the MAryland area--- but they outdid themselves with Gonzalez and Jackson.    I do think he'd be a good fit in Pittsburgh-- they need a starter and I'm sure when the dust settles, they'll make a deal.   The Yanks are eating most of this salary---mostly because of of the possibility of tho to trade among Burnett, Hughes or Garcia, Burnett makes the most sense to move along.  ANY relief they get on salary will only be used to sign Chavez and another one of Damon/Matsui/Ibanez.   So even if the Yanks get a low-level prospect for him, think of it that we'd be trading him to get a prospect and 2 of the 4 guys above.   Well worth the "trade."  And the comment was already made--- we are paying his salary anyway, might as well get something for him and let him move on.  He is Ed Whitson II---- really can't cut it in NY.

He is Ed Whitson II---- really can't cut it in NY.

He might be but in 2008, he pitched three times  against the Yankees  and had 29k  and 3 bb.. He won 2 of those three games.. gave up 3 earned runs..

Had two starts against the RedSox won both times 9k and 8 BB gave up only 1 earned run....

Maybe it was what we all knew already.. His walk year and looking for a big payoff in the FA market...if you go back to the Marlins, he did the same thing... No.. Not an Ed Witson.. More like, Dracula.. Suck them dry!... You mark my words.., where ever he goes, in his last year of that contract, every fan on this board will say WOW. AJ turned it around!... and God help that fan who post on this board saying we should re-sign him!!.... 
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FYI.. Latest News .. AJ still in the hunt by the Bucos.. But now we want Garret Jones...or at least thats what the front office in Yankeeland is now asking for.. And the Yankees eat 28 million of the 33mm left on the contract...

I ask you .. what other team in baseball could afford to make this bad FA signing and then do this?...  is it a wonder I get pi$$ed!!!..

I'm glad that the Yankees agree with my suggestion to try to get Garrett Jones.  I say add a prospect with Burnett and the cash and get Jones-- he would be better than Damon/Matsui/Ibanez and more flexibility with defensive options

This looks like it could really happen, and I am happy for everyone involved. I would love to get Garret Jones, but honestly would not be upset if we didnt get him. The Pirates are probably one of the only teams interested in Burnett, and they kinda need him. Dont forget that the Pirates were in first mid way through the season before they collapsed. Cardinals dont have Pujols and the Brewers dont have Fielder and possibly Braun for 50 games. Burnett could thrive in on that team where expectations are clearly dropped.

I'm not pretending to be a expert scout, but I do watch alot of Trenton Thunder games and I saw the Pirates Double AA team quite a bit. if the Yanks cant get anyone of great valu (which I expect), there are 2 players on that Altoona Curve team that I really liked that are not big prospects at all. Their names are Brock Holt and Quincy Latimore. Holt is a second baseman and Latimore is an outfielder. Holt kinda reminds me of a David Eckstein with a little more of a bat, and Latimore has some power that just isnt harnessed yet. They are both 23 or 24, and for a salay dump, I would like to see these 2 guys come over into our system. What makes this possible is that they are not on te Pirates top 20 prospects, but I feel that they can add to our system and possible make it one day to the show as a utility infielder or 4th outfielder.

Logic free_Pie in the sky post:

Burnett, Hughes, Gardner for Andrew McCutcheon

never happen, had to throw it out there.

That would be something great though. Wouldnt be enough, but it is nice to dream a little...haha

Lou,

I really believe Burnett is not pitching in this rotation unless someone gets hurt or Hughes AND Garcia totally fall on their face.  Assuming Phil gets it together, Burnett is at best the 6th best starter and most likely the 7th "best" starter on the team.  Just get rid of him, doesn't matter how much you eat or what you get in return.  As for Garrett Jones, he's a cheap source of power on a team that seriously lacks offense.  He's not coming to the Yankees unless NY throws in a decent prospect, which could happen but it's more likely to not get that complicated and just be a straight salary dump.

Cmon Yankees, do whatever it takes to get rid of AJ!

It's sounding promising, John Heyman just tweeted that there is a lot of optimism that a deal will get done.  Smart move, we'll eat a bunch of his contract, but in the long run I think it will be a good move.

Burnett, Hughes, Gardner for Andrew McCutcheon

Love McCutcheon, Yanks87....great thought! 

@DG.....

Assuming Phil gets it together

been waiting for 4 years and counting.. ,

Burnett is at best the 6th best starter and most likely the 7th "best" starter on the team

DG... Like I said, I personally drive AJ to the next stadium if we unload him, but, WOW 16mm to sit on the bench.. and 33mm still owed.. I shake my head and cry at this!!..

As for Garrett Jones, he's a cheap source of power on a team that seriously lacks offense

Honestly, who do the BUCOS have to drive in runs now?.. The lost four players to FA and unless they are counting on some of these other kids to step up and produce for that lost production, I dont see how AJ gives them any comfort to keep the games closer for them to compete... I am sure there are Buco fans coming to our board laughing at that  this franchise saying sure we will take AJ, but you have to pay us to do that!!..

Jones has a nice fit with us.. Plays firstbase and OF, has some sting in his bat, but if he joins this Yankee ball club, he has to learn the American league pitchers.... Not really sure how much production we get with him, but then again I dont follow the Bucs close enough to gage it.. Jury is still out on this for me.... Jones and Jones as the DH.. Well, at least General Joe will know one thing for sure a Jones is DHing!..

which could happen but it's more likely to not get that complicated and just be a straight salary dump.

I wonder, is there is  anything in Cashmans contract that provides incentives to him?.. anyone know for sure if he does?.. cause, Hank and Hal have to be crazy to allow a player to leave this club and pay 25 to 27 mm not to pitch for them.. Couldnt we rent AJ to the bucos and bring him back on his last year of his contract?.. LOL.. after all, thats when he seems to really produce!!.... 

Some good point DG... gave you 5 stars...

@chick

Love McCutcheon, Yanks87....great thought

This coming from the Yankee fan that thinks I am nuts about the Rays trading Longoria to Yankees but loves the idea of McCtucheon.. Come on chick... LOL...

Safe to say, not likely, but, I like the idea myself....

This would be awesome if we can trade him.  I just hope we get something back that can help us a little this year.  I know we wont get anythng great I hope its something ok.  Jones would of been a nice pick up but oh well.  Pitt said they will not let him go. 


Anybody have any clue who the Yankees might get in this trade?