Burnett and the Pirates

Supposedly, the Yanks and Angels talked about a swap, Abreu for Burnett.  This would make sense for both teams since the Angels have the choice of Jerome Williams or a rookie for their 5th starter.  Why not add Burnett as an option and for depth.  They also have an overabundance of outfielders, so it doesn't make sense for them to have Abreu who's making 9 mil in a platoon situation.  Abreu was great when he was with the Yanks, but it doesn't matter.  AJ vetoed the trade.  It's in his contract that he has the right to veto 10 teams, and all the West coast teams are among them. 

AJ must have a big time fear of tectonic plate shifts, yankeechick. The chance to pitch against Oakland and Seattle with Pujols in your 4-hole, and he puts the kabosh on the idea? He just blew a chance to pitch another 5 years, IMO.

It's the West Coast and flying thing--- would have been a good fit for him and Abreu would have been a nice complementary piece here.  Kind of glad though on this end--I'm a big fan of the Pirates deal just so the Yanks will never face him again (unless it's interleague).  Check out the NY Times article though-- another team in the mix now and whichever of the two makes the better deal will get Burnett.  Saturday is the soft deadline, but it is rumored to be ready to go by today or tomorrow.

I think A.J. Burnett would be a great fit in Pittsburgh. That's a pretty good team in a weakening Central Division. Except for Cincinatti, which has gotten stronger with Matt Latos, the Astros are awful, the Cubs are rebuilding, the Cardinals lost Albert Pujols and the Brewers lost Prince Fielder.

Pittsburgh is a pitchers park and A.J. will be the veteran leader among some decent young arms. The Pirates lineup is getting better and better and Hurdle did a great job with them last year.

I was hoping for Garrett Jones in a trade for Burnett, but I guess that's not happening. Teixeira has been banged up quite a bit the past two years and Jones can play first base or right field. Plus DH is wide open and I hope it stays that way.

I'd prefer the Yankees didn't bring in a guy like Abreu or Vlad to DH. I'd rather they rotate at DH to give guys days off and utilize their bench players.

Stick, I agree that the NL Central has weakened considerably, but to say the Pirates are pretty good is an overstatement, IMO.  I mean, they have like zero offense beyond McCutcheon, and their rotation is made up of projects.  I will say both James McDonald and Charlie Morton have potential, but when you have Jeff Karstens as your "ace," and you're relying on Erik Bedard to remain healthy for more than a month, you're in trouble.  I know the Pirates made a run for it last year, but I don't see it happening again even considering the absence of Fielder and Pujols.  I think the Reds are the team to beat, and the Cards will still be strong, especially if Wainwright has recovered from his surgery.  The Brewers are gonna have a tough time if they lose Braun for 50 games.  I think you can count them out, if that happens.  Otherwise, they'll be in it too. 

I'm not saying the Pirates won't be a good fit for AJ, I think it will.  Much less pressure for him there, and a change of scenery couldn't hurt. 

I agree with what you're saying about their rotation, which is why A.J. Burnett would be a good get for them.

The Pirates lineup though, is pretty solid as I see it. Jose Tabata, when healthy, has been a good hitter for average with speed and some pop. Second year player Alex Presley impressed late last year and he's a similar style player with speed to burn and some pop. Garrett Jones is a solid, unsung player at first base and third baseman Pedro Alvarez while not established, has a very high ceiling. Casey McGehee provides excellent depth on the corners and I think could supplant Pedro Alvarez quite easily if he disappoints again. Second baseman Neil Walker, a former first rount talent, came into his own last year and I think he's legit. They'll have a good glove for shortstop (D'Arunud or Barmes) and an under appreciated catcher in Rod Barrajas. Then of course, there is Andrew McCutchen, who is a stud.

The Pirates secret weapon is a deep bullpen and I belive they've got some promising young arms on the farm.

St.Louis did add Beltran, but they're depending on a few injury prone older guys (Berkman as well), some seemingly injury prone younger guys and they've got a change at Manager.

The Brewers will be missing Ryan Braun to a suspension, in addition to Prince Fielder. That's a lot of offense right there. And the Brewers bullpen stinks behind Axford.

I think the Pittsburgh Pirates will hang in the top three for most of the year with the Reds and Cardinals. I think second place is do-able, but I'd predict third place.

Speaking of the "mystery team", did anyone hear which team that is yet?  Or is it still a secret?  I would like to know what they are offering for AJ.

yc:  Have to agree, until they can get to .500, they cannot be called a pretty good team.  That said, they picked up 15 wins last year from 57 in 2010 to 72 in 2011, so let's hope they can continue.  This is not the Jeff Karstens who pitched in NY - he got his chance and figured out that when you throw Hi 80's fastballs, the only way you make it look faster to the batter is to develop some more offspeed stuff.  He was throwing in the 60's on some pitches and then coming back in the Hi 80's and then back to the Hi 70's - don't care what he is throwing, 9-9, 3.38 in 26 starts is damn good.  Charlie Morton figured out that his 95 mph 4 seamer was BP so he watched a lot of video on Doc Halladay and went to a two seamer that dipped and ran - ergo "ground Chuck" with the highest percentage of ground balls last year in the majors, I think.  He went from a bum to 10-10, 3.83 in 29 starts.  And, James McDonald 9-9, 4.21 in 31 starts has shown that he can be a power pitcher 142 K's in 171 IP, but walked 78, so he has work to do.  Kevin Correia gets beat up but always posts a decent record - go figure.  Last year he was 12-11, 4.79 in 26 starts.  For the Pirates, this is as solid of a Rotation as they have had in more than a few years, and the bullpen is very good.

Hurdle supplied a lot of positive influence on a team of very young kids, and during the off season they replaced SS Ronny Cedeno with Clint Barmes, an upgrade all the way around, and signed Rod Barajas to Catch which will help the Rotation a lot, and he still has some pop in the bat.  They went as high as they did last year without any input from Pedro Alvarez and did not have anything with any pop at 1B until DLee came in the last two months of the season.  They could benefit from a guy like Burnett, but IMHO, they have guys at AAA - 4 LHSP's counting Tony Watson who could be that 5th guy in the Rotation.  Can Burnett get us to .500?  Nope.  So what is the need for such a short-term guy?  I favor giving the kids a chance like LHSP's Rudy Owens, Jeff Locke, or Justin Wilson.  Our future is not now - possibly 2 years from now, so why not get these kids the reps.       

Stick, really?  The Pirates lineup is pretty solid?  C'mon, now, you're more baseball savvy than that.  I agree they have potential with Presley, Tabata and Alvarez, but potential doesn't win games unless that potential turns into reality.  I like Garrett Jones, but the dude is old enough to be what he is; a power hitter who strikes out a lot.  Neil Walker is serviceable.  Rod Barajas, under-appreciated?  The guy can't hit, period.  He'll be decent defensively, but that's it.  I like McGeHee, but I think what we saw last year is closer to his ceiling than what he produced in 2010.  I do agree that the Pirates' bullpen is better than what people think, but bullpens don't win divisions.  You still have to score runs, and your rotation still has to hold opposing teams at bay.  I just don't see it. 

Emjay, appreciate your input, especially since it's obviously unbiased by your obvious love for the Pirates which I respect.  You're obviously not a fair weather friend. 

I have to say, not a fan of Karstens.  Agreed he's not the same pitcher who came up with the Yankees, but he's still not a force.  He's a mediocre pitcher with good control, but a lack of pure stuff.  He shouldn't be in the position of #1 on any team.  I do like Morton and McDonald as I mentioned.  I think McDonald has the best stuff next to Bedard out of that entire rotation.  I agree with your assessment of Correia in that he's an average pitcher who'll eat innings.  My point being that the rotation consists of a combination of control pitchers with mediocre stuff, pitchers with great stuff who haven't harnessed their control and pitchers who can't stay healthy.  What does that get you?  An ulcer. 

I don't see how Barmes is a significant upgrade over Cedeno, but maybe you know better than me.  Barajas, like you say, may be an upgrade on defense, but pop in his bat?  I don't see it.  Your take on the Pirates being 2 years away is right on, thank you for your honesty.  Why not give the kids an opportunity like you say.  Selfishly, I want to get rid of AJ, but if I was a Pirates fan, I might agree with you, if not for what happened last year and the status of the NL Central this year.  Again, the Pirates made a run for it last year, and considering the weakened division this year, it's not crazy to think they could do it again with the same team, so why not try and strengthen their rotation which needs it?  Just saying.

Pittsburgh Pirates will finish in third place behind the Reds and Cards. Maybe second. You heard it here first.  Not really a major stretch. The Astros suck. The Cubs are a work in progress. The Brewers are without Braun and Fielder. In a way, it's kind of an easy prediction.

And they'll be in the Division race for most of the way. Dusty Baker has a way of keeping things closer than they should be.


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I didn't realize until today that the Yankees had Russel Branyan. Why even bother with Damon, Ibanez or Hideki? Branyan gets no respect. He kicked ass for Seattle in 2010 and then couldn't even get a job in 2011.

The Brewers will be severely hurt without Fielder and possibly Braun for a period, but will still be in it with their pitching; see the Giants.  Gallardo, Greinke and Marcum can hang with the best of them.  The Pirates starting 3 cannot compete with that. 

Thank you all for the hospitality.  I am glad the trade has been finalized, but the jury is out as to how it will shake out.  Burnett had some very solid performances in April, May, and June 2011, but ballooned up to 6+ ERA in July and then an almost unbelievable 11+ ERA in August - that's too scary to even write!  Ray Searage is the pitching coach for Pittsburgh and I will be surprised if he cannot get Burnett on the right track.  His track record from last year with many of the Pirate pitchers is proof positive that he has a unique talent with pitchers with problems.  But, I can assure you that he and Hurdle will not accept the number of walks.  He was also VG in the 1st 3 innings of games and then downhill from there.  Could be a concentration problem, could be a loss of stuff 2nd time through the lineup.  Who knows?  But, the trade cannot hurt the Pirates, and he was going nowhere with the Yankees - a win-win for the teams and hopefully, Burnett realizes he has a new opportunity.   

No way that the Pirates finish higher than the Brewers in 2012.  Cincy has some major talent, and the Cardinals and Brewers have pitching.  But, the Brewers "sold out" the past few years to win the ring in 2011.  Prince has left, Braun may miss all of April and May, and you are paying Grienke $13.5 mil in his last year before Free Agency, and almost $8 mil for Marcum in his last year before FA.  But they still have some very talented players in the lineup and a very solid bullpen. 

Think Toronto is missing Marcum?  Brett Lawrie is what the Brewers gave for him.  And Grienke had a great 2011 but Alcides Escobar at age 24 was one of the Top 3 defensive Shortstops in MLB, Lorenzo Cain, 25, was a force at AAA in CF (.857 OPS) and will be a fixture in the KC OF for a long time.  Jake Odorizzi at age 21 is already through AA with good performances.  A mid-market team like Milwaukee cannot afford to lose young long-term talent like that.  And, they have holes at SS, CF, and Odorizzi would be a nice chip to have knowing that Grienke and/or Marcum could be too expensive or gone in 2013.

Good Luck in 2012.        

Emjay, great points about the Brewers, but considering the NL Central is a dogfight between the Cards, Reds and Brewers every year, can you really blame them for "selling out?"  They saw their weakness, assessed the division and went for it. 

I agree that acquiring AJ can't really hurt the Pirates.  Rothschild wasn't getting anywhere with him.  Will Searage do any better?  I'm sorry, but probably not.  Where AJ is concerned, I don't believe it's coaching, it's in his head.  He was maddening.  He stunk it up for extended periods, but then went out and pitched a gem during the playoffs last season.  So, you know the talent's still there.  Regardless of everything, someone new to try and get through to him is the only way to go.  Good luck to the Pirates with that. 

Check out the rumors links today that say that the Yanks, even after the trade of Burnett, have room in the budget to sign a lefty DH OR Chavez, but not both.  Are they really that stretched that they needed relief from Burnett's salary to accommodate for the signing of Kuroda and now limit themselves between Chavez and Ibanez (or Damon, etc)?  Makes no sense.  I guess the minor leagure deals for Hall and Branyon are going to mean something.  At this point, if it's a decision between Chavez and one of Ibanez/Damon/Guerrero, I'd go for any one of the three over CHavez.  Hall or Branyon can be capable replacements for as many ABs as Chavez is going to give them (especially due to his injury potential).  

i wouldnt give up on chavez, true, the injury factor is there, but he made some great plays in field, and had some key hits..

Absolutely with A.J. Burnett it's all about his head. I couldn't agree more.

That's why Pittsburgh is such a great place for him. Weaker divisional opponents, bigger home ballpark, no DH, far lower fan expectations and Media pressure.

A.J. Burnett, if healthy, will be a candidate for Comeback Player of the Year. This was a GREAT move by the up and coming Pirates and could give them the #1 starter they're lacking. A.J. Burnett has always had the elite "stuff", it's always an issue of consistency with him. As for the rest of the Pirates rotation, it's unimpressive especially when compared to their probable lineup and bullpen, but they are stacked with quality arms on the farm. And unlike the Yankees, the Pirates may not be as hesitant to bring up their young guns.

Stick--

I think you need to qualify what the meaing of "healthy" is.   It's not a matter of physical health-- it's his mental health.  I think he will be fine this year just for two reasons:   no pressure in Pittsburgh   and Rod Barajas.    Not sure if I'm ready to annoint him as comeback player of the year, but I guess I would not be shocked if he had a decent year.   Don't forget that the Pirates offense leaves something to be desired, so he won't have the offense to bail him out if he gets in trouble.  No matter how you slice it, it's a win-win for both sides and for Burnett especially.  As much as I'm glad to see him go, I'm just as happy for him to get a fresh start

If five starters are used over 162 games, that would be about 33 to 36 games for a starter in the top two or three. (based on a fifth starter losing a few starts to days off) If a starter misses three or four starts to day to day bull sh-t / safety concerns, that might put him at 30 starts over a relatively full season.

But I'd say "healthy" TO ME, means that A.J. Burnett is able to pitch without arm trouble or discomfort. Phil Hughes last year started a lot of games but he was rarely pitching as a "healthy" starter in 2011.

I don't agree that it's a "win-win" for both sides. I think it's a huge win for the Pirates. What the Yankees get out of it, is that if they had kept A.J. Burnett, we might have gone through the same sh-t we just went through the past two years. Which is maddening inconsistency. But to say the Yankees "won" when they had to pay $ 18 to 20 million just for the Pirates to take a potential ACE starter off of their hands, that's not a win for the Yankees by any means. From all reports, the prospects the Yankees received are marginal at best.

I would agree that the trade "makes sense" for both teams because the Yankees had one too many starters and A.J. Burnett is a head case. The $13 million that the Pirates are paying A.J. could be counted as payment towards Hiroki Kuroda's contract.

So glad he's gone.  He leaves and blames the coaches because he sucked.  After a few bad outings he claims he listened too much and started thinking too much.  Well, his fast ball isn't as fast and he launched like 25 wild pitches last year.  Look out National League and prepare to duck!