Brady...One SB from GOAT

Despite the constant attempts to bring down Tom Brady the fact is he has delivered a career to this point that can be equaled or surpassed by very few. On Feb. 5th, 2005, Tom Brady solidified himself as one of the 3 greatest QBs to ever play the game of football. Since that point he's just been adding to it. Despite his SB losses he sites in firm control of his destiny as the greatest QB to ever play the game. Fools like Sol and ObjectiveFan (or something close to that) will have you believe the SB losses matter. End of the day, you win the SB or you don't. It doesn't matter when you lose. Tom Brady already has the edge over Montana and Aikman in a VARIETY of categories. Simply put, a 4th SB puts Brady above all others as the greatest of all-time.

If you disagree, please speak up. You'll be made foolish by me.

Vinatieri must be considered GOAT as well then.

Aww are people picking on poor little Tommy??

Nice thread Gisselle.

montana is 4-0 in superbowls..alright that wraps this thread up.. nothing more to say here

Nice thread Gisselle.

I laughed

montana is 4-0 in superbowls..alright that wraps this thread up.. nothing more to say here

So, Lombardi's alone determine who's #1?

OK....in that case Terry Bradshaw is #1 because not only is he 4-0 in SB's, but he did it first.

See how silly that sounds.

And before anyone points out that Terry had great defenses, so did Joe Montana.

1981 - the 49er's were ranked 2nd in overall defense.

1984 - they were 10th

1988 - they were 3rd

1989 - they were 4th.

Average - 4.75


Looking at Bradshaw...

1974 - his defense was 1st.

1975 - his defense was 4th

1978 - his defense was 3rd

1979 - his defense was 2nd.

Average - 2.5.



A slight difference.....2nd ranked defense vs (rounded up) 5th ranked defense.


Now, for the record, I think Joe was a better QB than Terry, I'm just saying that going strictly by W-L in Super Bowls is not a good indicator.


As for the OP, Tom Brady is NOT the greatest of all time. Comparing players across eras is impossible to do. How would Tom Brady have faired had he played in the 70's when there weren't so many rules to protect QB's? Or the 60's when the ball was much rounder - and therefore much harder to throw downfield - than it is now?

If I had to pick the GOAT it would be Joe Montana.

Thing is, I try not to compare across eras but rather compare QB's to their contemporaries. Is Tom Brady the best of his age? Maybe, maybe not. He's being challanged by Peyton Manning. And the numbers Tom is putting up will certainly be eclipsed by Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers one day.

Tom Brady is ONE of the greatest of all time, yes - but not THE greatest of all time.

Really, why is it so important for some people, that Brady is considered the best QB of all time, or not?  Everytime the question comes up, I want to smash myself in the head with my keyboard.  I'm a Pats fan.  Have been all my life, since 1973.  So, I know all about the laughing stock of an NFL team that the Pats used to be.  The fact that a Patriot player can be in the conversation as one of the best, is something that I would've never believed, if I you told me in the year 2000. 


One decade wiped away a lifetime of failure for the Patriots.  One person who never gets enough credit, is Mr. Robert Kraft.  Sure, he's lauded as one of the current best owners but, when it comes to the teams succes, it's all about Brady.  Former owners could care less about what type of players they brought in.  The Pats used to be a haven for punks, losers and the untalented.  Kraft changed all that.  We no longer have nitwits like Zeke Mowatt wiggling the only talent he has, in female reporter's face's.  Those days are long gone and never coming back with the Kraft family running the ship.



NE has become the place where winning football is played.  And it came out of nowhere.  That's enough for me.  Do I think TB12 is the geatest of all time?  I have no idea.  Is he the best QB I've ever seen play for the Patriots?  No doubt.  Is there another QB that I want for my team?  Not a chance.  I could care less, about how he's viewed by the fan base of rival teams.  GOAT status = not much.   

Just stating facts ladies and gentlemen. Sorry if you're not a fan of them.

Vinatieri must be considered GOAT as well then.

Along with Clark, Tyree and Manningham.

See how silly that sounds.

Not to a 20yr old Patriots fan who never saw the other players on the "list" even play the game.

Rings and Stats make the player, it's a fact proven through time...

End of the day, you win the SB or you don't. It doesn't matter when you lose. 

Is that what you told Tom when he was sitting at his locker with a towel over his head for an hour after the game? If you are a NE fan, didn't it hurt to lose?

It's absolutely crazy to say it doesn't matter if you lose a Super Bowl. Ask Charlie Waters of the Dallas Cowboys if it matters that the Steelers beat them twice (even though Charlie won 2 rings). 

Right now the best QB in the league is Aaron Rodgers, with Brees a very close second. Of all the years Brady has played QB, he has been the best QB in a single season only once = 2007. 

Best QBs Current Era by Season:

2001 - Warner
2002 - Gannon
2003 - Manning
2004 - Manning
2005 - Manning
2006 - Manning
2007 - Brady
2008 - Warner
2009 - Brees
2010 - Rodgers
2011 - Rodgers

 

going by points allowed, the only stat to me that really matters on defense.....brady's D was 1st, 2nd and 3rd.....for an average of 2.....brady pretty good running games those years too





Someone else posted this stat and i love it, but can't take credit for it, i forget who it was:


Brady has played in 5 superbowls, has 9 TD passes (yea, GOAT).....those 9 passes, i think he posted were 1,3, 4, 4,5,5,7,9,12 yard passes



the numbers might be off, but i know it was 8 passses under 10 yards, 1 pass of 12 yards......the man can not throw the ball down field, the only time he ever could was w/ the freak Randy Moss             

2001 - Warner
2002 - Gannon
2003 - Manning
2004 - Manning
2005 - Manning
2006 - Manning
2007 - Brady
2008 - Warner
2009 - Brees
2010 - Rodgers
2011 - Rodgers

The argument that Patriots fans have for him being on the verge of GOAT is that for all those years, Brady has won 3 superbowls and been to 5 superbowls for a basic 50% clip for his starting career.  This is great, not just good, but great.  He has the TD record, he has thrown for more than 5K, all great.   You look at stats and superbowls and he's been the top overall quarterback for that era.

But if you see his Superbowl numbers and look closely, you see that he's a short yardage passer that has often relied on his recievers to get his yardage.  That is good, but when he's been asked to make a big play, like Ben or Eli of late, when it comes time to win the game with a touchdown, not just setting up his ole Kicker who could be the best clutch kick ever, that's a GOAT argument Pats fan could possibly win, that's when Brady has underthrown or thrown behind his receiver, like we just saw a few weeks back.  And it's not just 2 throws, it's in two games he's been 0 for 13 over 20 yards, with that interception.  The best team he had in 2007 did pretty well without him at the helm the following year, not saying Brady is a system quarterback, but it does show that the team around him is/was pretty good.  BB is still there as well.  He's great, up there, but only Pats fans or Brady lovers are having him in the GOAT talk.

And that article the last poster referenced....here it is:

Tom Brady: Not So Terrific

Enjoy

With the Giants having the last ranked rushing defense it just goes to show that this is the era of Passing, my team the Broncos tried to buck the trend but ran into a possessed Tom Brady.  But before the stats loft him atop all others, we need to look at this last year.  No offense to Lions fans here, but their quarterback proved the point:

2011 Matthew Stafford 5038 yards passing for 41 touchdowns

Joe Montana best ever passing yards = 3944 yards, best ever touchdowns = 31.  He never threw 40+ and never threw for 4K+. 

It's a great time to be an above average passer in a system that throws the ball more then they run it.  The current rules of not being able to touch receivers or even quarterbacks are making someone Dan Marino wish he was playing today, because then he'd throw for 6k yards.

Best QBs Current Era by Season:

2001 - Warner
2002 - Gannon
2003 - Manning
2004 - Manning
2005 - Manning
2006 - Manning
2007 - Brady
2008 - Warner
2009 - Brees
2010 - Rodgers
2011 - Rodgers

Sorry, there's no way on god's green earth that Aaron Rodgers had a better season in 2010 than Tom Brady. 36 TD's to 4 INT's re-setting his own NFL record. The only unanamous MVP in league history.

Brady did in five years what it took Montana ten years to do. I don't think he's the GOAT and I've said that every time it comes up. But Rings and stats (and TD -INT ratio seperates the goods from the greats) are what matters the most.

You can list Manning over and over but in the end he was a great regular season QB who set the all time TD record by dinking and dunking TD passes despite how many Brady haters try to claim otherwise, and he threw too many INT's in big situations, He has one of the most embarrassing career playoff records an all-time great could ever have. 

And that article the last poster referenced....here it is:

Tom Brady: Not So Terrific

That's a good site as is their sister site Footballnation. I read that piece last weeek and I agree with what the article says. Brady's not been great in the post season over the past five years,

But as a Pats fan listening to a Bronco fan saying "enjoy" to reading an article that is (justly) critical of Brady, I have to point you to the fact that the same site calls John Elway one of the five most over-rated Quarter backs to ever play the game.

There's three stories they did. (Besides an another where they rank the worst Superbowl performances by a QB and he own 2 of the worst 5) I pasted the meat of each story and the link to it.

Oh yeh, I almost forgot: "Enjoy".....

Here's the first: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co
m/Articles/11_2285_The_most_overrat
ed_quarterbacks.html

John Elway (1983-98) It's almost sacrilege to criticize the great Denver quarterback. But, naturally, the Cold, Hard Football Facts are not above skewering pigskin dogma, and then munching on the roasted carcass, as if it were an Oktoberfest steckerlfische.   Elway was a great quarterback, as we noted last week in our look at all-time passer rating leaders. He won a lot of games, he lifted an ordinary organization to its greatest heights, he boasts two rings and he produced several amazing comebacks.   But he earns his way on the overrated list because he was never – let us be very clear about this, Elway was NEVER – a great passer. And passing being one of the primary responsibilities of a quarterback, it makes Elway an obvious name to include on this list.   The truth is that Elway was downright mediocre his first 10 years in the league and it was not until 1993 – his 11th year in the NFL – that he had anything that approximated a breakout season.   If not for the fact that Elway was a No. 1 draft pick and, thus, entered the league with a boatload of hype that earned him the benefit of the doubt, he never would have lasted very long as a starter in the NFL given the mediocrity of his performances in those first 10 years.   It wasn't until Elway was in his 11th NFL campaign of 1993 that he ever surpassed 22 TD passes in a season (about eight games of work for Tom Brady or Peyton Manning in a good year).   And even after that, Elway never passed for more than 27 TD passes in his 16-year career. Think about that for a moment ... after all, according to ProFootballReference.com, quarterbacks have passed for 28 TDs or more in a season 99 times in history. Yet the name "John Elway" is nowhere among that Top 99.   Yes, he threw for 300 TD passes in his career, fifth all time. But he averaged 18.75 TD passes per year, while tossing 226 picks (14.13 per year). That 19-14 average TD:INT ratio is far below the general 2 to 1 ratio that sets apart great Live Ball Era passers from ordinary passers.   And save for that breakout 1993 campaign, when Elway lead the league in completions (348) and yards (4,030), he never – again we repeat, Elway NEVER – led the league in any major passing categories (completions, yards, TDs, passer rating).   As we said before, Elway deserves to be considered a great quarterback and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. But go back and look at the Cold, Hard Football Facts and you'll find a guy whose production never matched his reputation.   What you will find is a guy who stands at No. 44 on the all-time passer rating list (79.86), just one spot ahead of his clearly not-HOF-caliber mate from the famous QB Class of 1983, Tony Eason (79.72). You'll also find someone who produced three of the most dismal performances in Super Bowl history.   There are those sad, sorry souls – devoid as they are of the Cold, Hard Football Facts – who believe Elway is one of the Top Five quarterbacks in history. Athlon Sports, in its new 2008 pro football annual, named Elway the second best quarterback of the Super Bowl Era, behind only Joe Montana.   But he's not even close, folks. No way. No how. Sorry Athlon. Sorry Denver. Put aside the reputation, look only at the Cold, Hard Football Facts, and check yourself before your wreck yourself.

Here's the second:http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co
m/Articles/11_695_The_Super_Bowl_Cl
ing-Ons.html

Overview: Elway has a reputation as a big-game gunslinger. The Cold, Hard Football Facts prove he was anything but a big-game player on Super Bowl Sunday. Elway threw at least 1 INT in all five of his Super Bowl appearances, including six in the three losses. His performance in Super Bowl XXIV, a 55-10 loss to San Francisco, was one of the worst by a quarterback in Super Bowl history (10 of 26, 108 yards, 0 TD, 2 INTs, 19.4 rating). With the arrival of Mike Shanahan as its coach, Denver became a team powered by the run and Elway rode the coattails of running back Terrell Davis to victory. The Broncos shed their cloak of vincibility with a 31-24 win over Green Bay in Super Bowl XXXII. Elway had his usual subpar Super Bowl passing performance (12 of 22 for 123 yards with 0 TDs, 1 INT), but MVP Davis rushed for 157 yards and a Super Bowl record 3 TDs. Elway pulled it all together in Super Bowl XXXIII, a 34-19 win over Atlanta. He passed for 336 yards in the final game of his career, earned MVP honors, erased a legacy of Super Bowl duds and rode off into the sunset one of the most celebrated players in league history. Denver rushed 75 times and passed 51 times in its two Super Bowl victories.   Signature moment: Denver and Green Bay were locked in a 17-17 tie late in the third quarter of Super Bowl XXXII when the Broncos faced a 3rd and 6 at the Green Bay 12. Elway dropped back to pass but then ran through an opening in the Green Bay defense. He dove for the first down, only to get whacked by safety LeRoy Butler. Elway spun around in midair like a helicopter, but had reached the first-down marker. Davis soon scored to give the Broncos a 24-17 lead. It's only fitting that the most memorable play of Elway's Super Bowl career is not a spiraling pass hanging in the air, but a gritty rush attempt near the goal line. Elway also rushed for a 1 yard TD in the second quarter of Super Bowl XXXII.  

Here's the Third:http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co
m/Articles/11_2337_This_one's_for_John's_teammates.html

...Elway is clearly an epic hero in NFL history. He's clearly a guy who engendered an emotional attachment from his fans. And he's clearly a great, Hall of Fame quarterback. We don't dispute any of that and – all you little bloggers and chat-board posters out there – don't pretend we've said otherwise.   However, Elway is hardly one of the two, three or four greatest quarterbacks in history – positions in which he's routinely placed when people compile their emotional lists of greatest QBs in history (Athlon Sports, as we've noted, recently named Elway the second best quarterback of the Super Bowl Era, which is factually inaccurate by any measure).

Someone else posted this stat and i love it, but can't take credit for it, i forget who it was:


Brady has played in 5 superbowls, has 9 TD passes (yea, GOAT).....those 9 passes, i think he posted were 1,3, 4, 4,5,5,7,9,12 yard passes



the numbers might be off, but i know it was 8 passses under 10 yards, 1 pass of 12 yards......the man can not throw the ball down field, the only time he ever could was w/ the freak Randy Moss 

-

A couple of years back ESPN ranked Brady's Superbowl XXXVIII the best ever in the modern era.

1. Tom Brady, Super Bowl XXXVIII
Brady's total of 354 yards is the fourth highest of all time, his completion percentage of 66.7 percent was the highest in 10 years, and his 19 passing first downs and 32 completions are Super Bowl records. He is one of only four quarterbacks to throw two TD passes in the second half of a close game (the others were Terry Bradshaw in Super Bowl XIV, Joe Montana in Super Bowl XXIII and Jake Delhomme).


the others:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page
2/story?page=schatz/rankings/050131


Isn't the fact that Brady's only had a deep threat for one season (Considering he was out in 2009 and they traded Moss in season 2010) and he set the all time passing TD record, more of a feather in his cap than it is a black mark?

Give him Marvin Harrison in his prime or Tory Holt and then we'll see how he does.

ruprecht,

Good stats on Elway. Funny how the Bronco fans want no part of talking about Elway's actual numbers. Coldhardfootballfacts is all warm and fuzzy when they're critical of Brady but cold and uncomfortable when the same site talks about ol "John". Bottom line is no QB has had more success playing with less talent than Brady. As mentioned earlier, Montana played with top ten defenses every year, a running game, and the greatest widereceiver of all time. Brady's played 10 seasons considering he didn't play at all in 2000 and was hurt for the entire 2009 season. He's been to 5 Superbowls. A fourth grader could figure out the fact that he averages going to the Superbowl every other season.
What QB does or has done that in the modern era?

hey midnight terry bradshaw couldnt shine joe montans shoes... Steelers fans are ridiculous on these boards