if you truly think he is on par with josh god damn bynes then i honestly think your ability to talk about his abilties are completely coo coo. i say that in the nicest way i can think of. i get that you and many others hate him. but jesus christ does the bias ont hese boards no know bounds?Right now he is. I know it frustrates you to hear it but Josh played very well in the final 2 1/2 games of the regular season. You love to throw out the bias description but the truth is that describes you more than it does anyone else. I followed the Colts game thread and one of the things I noticed towards right away was your recognition of the one (and only) play he really made all day (TFL) and then totally missed on the next play when Dwayne Allen pancaked him.
Did he cheat? possibly, i havent read this article, but the majority of what has been said here is literally stating opinion as fact. Its freaking retarded. would him using said drugs make sesne with his performance in 2010- sure i could but it to a degree, but there is no undeniable evidence, there is just evidence that most people pass as sufficient because they want it to be true, because they dont like Ray Lewis.You didn't even read the article but you know everyone's motive? That's not fair 2k. I suggest reading it. He's on tape ordering the stuff and with all the press he got the last time this SWAT guy was in the news he certainly knew what it was he was getting. Why do it? Simple, it can't be tested, he wanted to return at all costs and IGF-1 is proven to aid in healing tendons and muscles. I.E. He was willing to cheat to get back on the field and he knew this was his last run anyway.
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GUYS ANNOYED WITH?! he might have cheated? so what, let him get caught if the evidence is there then let his own legacy be tarnished what affect does it have on your right now, on any of you.I can't speak for anyone else but I have a problem with it because puts himself on such a pedestal. He preaches all these religious values and openly pats himself on the back for all the people he's touched and the truth of the matter is he doesn't practice what he preaches. If you preach God, live by his words. If you choose not to live by his words then don't preach it.
My question for you Beach is how do you justify rooting for guys like Harrison or even Big Ben? Santonio Holmes wasn't a choir boy either and I'm sure there's many others. Is your problem with Ray solely because he pretends to be something you think he isn't? Do you have no problem with players having legal issues as long as they don't act like they're perfect?It's easy ... they're not Ravens!!!!
I don't care how many kids a man has so long as he's raising those kids. Too many fatherless kids in the world for me to call out a guy for taking care of how ever many he chooses to have. He's not Urlacher threatening his child's mother. He's not Suggs or Harrison attacking his children's mother. He's not Cromartie forgetting the names of his children. To me, it's not a big deal so long as he's taking care of those kids on more than just a financial levelHere's my problem with the kids thing - and keep in mind being father adds some perspective to this. Why weren't those kids in Florida in Baltimore with him? Lots of athletes have kids and they LIVE WITH THEM. Parenting is about being there, day and night. It's not about providing a home with them and checking in when you're in town. I don't know what level of participation Ray has with his kids but I know this ...
Ray has been a below average LB the last three weeks in coverage AND against the run. His average tackle is something like 7 yards down the field because he can't get off blocks (with a few exceptions) and he doesn't move laterally very well. Many of his tackles are him simply dropping in a zone on plassing plays and reading the QB. Even when he makes a tackle it's not the same Ray. He had Ballard dead to rights in the hole his first week back and Ballard spun off him to get 3 yards. He still made the tackle but the old Ray (or maybe a younger Bynes) stops that play for no gain.
Here's my problem with the kids thing - and keep in mind being father adds some perspective to this. Why weren't those kids in Florida in Baltimore with him? Lots of athletes have kids and they LIVE WITH THEM. Parenting is about being there, day and night. It's not about providing a home with them and checking in when you're in town. I don't know what level of participation Ray has with his kids but I know this ...
When you have three kids in Florida and three kids in Maryland some of those kids are being neglected. You simply can't be in two places at one time. And when there are 4 different mothers involved chances are you're not living with any of them. You're not there in the middle of the night when they wake up with a temperature. You're not changing diapers. You're not helping them with homework.
I don't mean to insult anyone in here but until you're a parent you can't really put Ray's actions in perspective. My understanding is his oldest three kids are in Florida and Ray has been a Raven for 17 years - which means he spends 6 months out of every year about 1200 miles away.
It's that he continues to show me he doesn't practice what he preaches and his history suggests it's just for camera time.Thats a valid opinion, one shared by many. I also think that he does things for teammates, other people, the community...that are NOT for the camera, not shown to the public, and are exactly in line with what he preaches.
Here's my problem with the kids thing - and keep in mind being father adds some perspective to this. Why weren't those kids in Florida in Baltimore with him?I can't speak on his situation as I don't know the full details. What I do know is that more often than not, the mother will get custody. Tatiyana McCall is the name of one of his baby mamas. They met in Miani and she has three kids by him. She lives in Orlando. I can't sit here and say he offered to move her to MD and she rejected nor can I say he never made the attempt.
This article has a bit of information that I found interesting. Its from the Sun, so discount it if you will. I think the sources show just how little the public knows, and what the media is willing to spoonfeed.Yeah I've read similar things contesting it's effectiveness without being injected. And then I've read others that say it is. Either way, it's banned and Ray shouldn't be using something that's banned. He obviously believed it would help him recover faster and he damn sure knew exactly what he was gettting in to regardless whether or not a few doctor's question how effective it is.
I agree that hes just playing average right now....but I completely disagree that Bynes would be playing better. Add in Ray's play calling and direction on the field, and its no contest Ray should be starting.Yeah I agree. I said I'd call it even. What Bynes offers athletically Ray probably counters with experience. Impossible to say who would be better but don't be surprised if Bynes is starting next year.
Its not Ray Lewis that is writing all these articles....or calling out every tackle he makes....or following him around with microphones....or drowning us in Ray Lewis rhetoric everyday. It gets tiring for all of us (yes, ALL of us). I know he loves the spotlight, but lets not act like hes forcing people to follow him around....Yeah I don't agree here. Ngata is easily a better defender than Ray right now and you rarely see him or hear about him because he's a very quiet guy. The media feeds off Ray, he feeds off the media. They fuel each other.
I bet that is much more prevalent that you think in the NFL, playing in one city and living in another. I dont disagree with your assessment, but that issue goes WAY beyond Ray.I'm not suggesting Ray is the only guy and I would be equally critical of anyone else that has made the decisions he made. Ryan Clark lives in Arizona in the offseason but his kids are always with him. They are in Pittsburgh 6 months a year and then Arizona the other 6 months.
I can't speak on his situation as I don't know the full details. What I do know is that more often than not, the mother will get custody. Tatiyana McCall is the name of one of his baby mamas. They met in Miani and she has three kids by him. She lives in Orlando. I can't sit here and say he offered to move her to MD and she rejected nor can I say he never made the attempt.Fair points but that discussion should have happened after the first child and if she refused to move to MD then he probably shouldn't have continued to have babies with her that he couldn't be a full-time father to. Or at the very least make your offseason home in the same area so you can be there. Orlando and Highlands Beach are not exactly right next door - about a 2 1/2 hour car ride.
Whereas it's easy to say that he should have his kids with him, we really don't know if that's actually possible (ie she could have refused to move to MD for whatever reason)
Right now he is. I know it frustrates you to hear it but Josh played very well in the final 2 1/2 games of the regular season. You love to throw out the bias description but the truth is that describes you more than it does anyone else. I followed the Colts game thread and one of the things I noticed towards right away was your recognition of the one (and only) play he really made all day (TFL) and then totally missed on the next play when Dwayne Allen pancaked him.Sorry for the effort you put in but i largely agree with what you said at the end, there is no point, we see two different things, i am biased as are you i just feel like i know his limits and i know what he brings and its good enough to warrant his position, you do not.
In another game (think it was Denver) I saw you describe a play as "blown coverage" when it was clear Ed guessed and tried to jump a route and hung Cary Williams out to dry. I bit my tongue in both instances because there was really no point in mentioning it but it was just more proof of what I already know - fans see the positive plays and rarely see the negative ones.
Ray has been a below average LB the last three weeks in coverage AND against the run. His average tackle is something like 7 yards down the field because he can't get off blocks (with a few exceptions) and he doesn't move laterally very well. Many of his tackles are him simply dropping in a zone on plassing plays and reading the QB. Even when he makes a tackle it's not the same Ray. He had Ballard dead to rights in the hole his first week back and Ballard spun off him to get 3 yards. He still made the tackle but the old Ray (or maybe a younger Bynes) stops that play for no gain.
That's enought of that though because I know you won't agree.
You didn't even read the article but you know everyone's motive? That's not fair 2k. I suggest reading it. He's on tape ordering the stuff and with all the press he got the last time this SWAT guy was in the news he certainly knew what it was he was getting. Why do it? Simple, it can't be tested, he wanted to return at all costs and IGF-1 is proven to aid in healing tendons and muscles. I.E. He was willing to cheat to get back on the field and he knew this was his last run anyway.When people state things like (in this case i think you said this) ' he DID this back in 2010, he GAVE it to cundiff' that is stating opinion as fact, look go read over the posts, how many people link their opinions back to facts that support their claims versus the people who simply assert something to be true. so you are right, i didnt read it, i also made that clear, but i dont need to read something to realise that people are literally just spouting opinions here. if any of this was indisputable, it would have been over years ago. Also it can be tested, just saying, if they wanted to test it they can, not through urine samples, it was dubious at best to test this crap back in 2007 or so but now if you wanted to find someone using this crap IT CAN BE DONE. its the same argument for safety, there are safer avenues to prevent injuries thanfineing everyone, but they dont take the oppertunities.
I can't speak for anyone else but I have a problem with it because puts himself on such a pedestal. He preaches all these religious values and openly pats himself on the back for all the people he's touched and the truth of the matter is he doesn't practice what he preaches. If you preach God, live by his words. If you choose not to live by his words then don't preach it.Did you read the next post i made, it pretty much addresses this point. I can totally see where you are coming from but what did you expect? what do you expect from any of these guys, as you said yourself, most of them probably take something illegal to boost their performance in some way- and lets not get things misunderstood here, ray preaches, but he is also given the spotlight, throw that light on any number of other players and you hear the same tired bs rhetoric of ' god is good' , 'im blessed' ' bla bla bla'. Most of these guys are like that, you hate ray becausee he is shoved in your face more than most of them ( not trying to speak for you here just making a point), but my point is, he is as hypocritical as nearly any other guy in that damn league- they are all the same. so why get annoyed and such when you find out he has boosted his recovery time to get back on the field.
Sorry for the effort you put in but i largely agree with what you said at the end, there is no point, we see two different things, i am biased as are you i just feel like i know his limits and i know what he brings and its good enough to warrant his position, you do not.Not sure I said he wasn't worth his position. I said I see him as Bynes' equal right now and considering they don't have McClain he certainly provides needed depth at ILB. I see your point about leadership and instincts but we have actually have evidence to the contrary when it comes to how the Ravens D plays without him.
When people state things like (in this case i think you said this) ' he DID this back in 2010, he GAVE it to cundiff' that is stating opinion as fact, look go read over the posts, how many people link their opinions back to facts that support their claims versus the people who simply assert something to be true. so you are right, i didnt read it, i also made that clear, but i dont need to read something to realise that people are literally just spouting opinions here.Not true. The 2010 stuff was a report, supported by the testimony of other players. The article yesterday includes a recorded conversation of Ray ordering the product. Could some people be lying? Obviously they could be but at some point you have to consider what they're saying, marry it to what's been reported and draw a logical conclusion.
Also it can be tested, just saying, if they wanted to test it they can, not through urine samples, it was dubious at best to test this crap back in 2007 or so but now if you wanted to find someone using this crap IT CAN BE DONE. its the same argument for safety, there are safer avenues to prevent injuries thanfineing everyone, but they dont take the oppertunities.Not without a blood test and the NFLPA is blocking blood tests. Even NFL novices like us know that so it's also disingenous for all these Ravens front office people to point to Ray never testing positive. I watched an interview with Ozzie this morning where someone actually asked him about HGH not being testable and he replied, "I don't know anything about that. I trust the NFL's drug testing policy". Cmon Ozzie, you don't know what is able to be tested and what isn't? That's BS. He knows that - just stop.
Did you read the next post i made, it pretty much addresses this point. I can totally see where you are coming from but what did you expect?I don't have expectations. There are good people in this world. There are bad people in this world. I see Ray as a bad person and I voice my displeasure. It's probably that simple.
It's that he continues to show me he doesn't practice what he preaches and his history suggests it's just for camera time.There's the real answer to the question I asked you and it's a valid and fair opinion.
It's from the Sun so discount it if you will.I seem to remember certain people citing several writers from the Sun as fact when they said the Ravens were lucky so I can't imagine they should have trouble trusting the Sun on this one.
I don't care how many kids a man has so long as he's raising those kids.
If the kids aren't in you're home daily . Under your tutelage , your guidance , your protection , you're just paying for them , not raising themThese are NFL players. For instance, not a single Raven or 49er has been with their kid since Monday and won't be until next Monday. Most NFL players are gone a lot during the football season.
Not sure I said he wasn't worth his position. I said I see him as Bynes' equal right now and considering they don't have McClain he certainly provides needed depth at ILB. I see your point about leadership and instincts but we have actually have evidence to the contrary when it comes to how the Ravens D plays without him.Dude lets not play semantics, or this will turn in to a massive long back and forth, i respect your ability to evaluate talent ( we both agreed on Aldon Smith for example, as well as many other prospects) and i almost will always take a back seat to your knowledge of front office stuff, but we simply disagree on the value of Ray Lewis. lets just leave it there. we both have our pros and cons for him, its really not worth it. dare i say- we are both to stubborn when it comees to this subject.
Go back to 2011 and they had some of their worst defensive performances with him on the field and were very good with him on the sideline. Early in the season they were awful against the run with him and Webb on the field. Later in the year they were much better without him (with the obvious addition of Terrell Suggs).
Does he help the Ravens? Sure he does. Is he easily replaced? In my opinion, yes he is and it's fortunate for him that he is retiring so the Ravens don't have to push him out.
Ok maybe a little misunderstanding here, what i was trying to say was that, if whatever report was as concrete as may be interpreted, then it would be almost self-evident, at this point, he isnt guilty, im not even saying he is innocent im just saying that any such comment is not entirely accurate, its opinion backed up with some evidence, but that evidence does not constitute as proof.
Not true. The 2010 stuff was a report, supported by the testimony of other players. The article yesterday includes a recorded conversation of Ray ordering the product. Could some people be lying? Obviously they could be but at some point you have to consider what they're saying, marry it to what's been reported and draw a logical conclusion.
Ray would have sounded more credible if he at least acknowledged he had a relationship with the guy and got products from him. He has a lot of products that are perfectly legal and he has a recorded conversation from the day he tore his triceps. You don't have to be a genius to realize he has a relationship with the guy so to dismiss the report as old news and to accuse the guy of looking for airtime is disingenuous. Why did he call him then?
Even now I'm watching him in his press conference calling the guy a coward. He says he has no credibility. Why did you call him then? Why would you seek him out (there is a recording) to help you with your injury when he implicated him two years ago?
Even NFL novices like us know that so it's also disingenous for all these Ravens front office people to point to Ray never testing positive. I watched an interview with Ozzie this morning where someone actually asked him about HGH not being testable and he replied, "I don't know anything about that. I trust the NFL's drug testing policy". Cmon Ozzie, you don't know what is able to be tested and what isn't? That's BS. He knows that - just stop.Right- they could blood test but they dont, whether that be because of a union blocking them or what not, they aren't pursuing it hard enough- they should. that was my point, they can test for most things, here is the issue with performance enhancing drugs, the test or the solution to them is almost always reactive as they have to wait for the drugs to surface first.
I don't have expectations. There are good people in this world. There are bad people in this world. I see Ray as a bad person and I voice my displeasure. It's probably that simple.Dont really have an issue with this, i dont take the man to be anything close to my morale compass. I think this basically sums it all up, you dont like him at all ( for valid reasons for which i largely agree with)- sometimes i feel like that impedes on his football worth, maybe i am wrong here.
If the kids aren't in you're home daily . Under your tutelage , your guidance , your protection , you're just paying for them , not raising themI wonder what a soldier's view on that opinion would be
I wonder what a soldier's view on that opinion would be
