NCAA Investigations

How many times do you need to be reminded that the NCAA is NOT a legal body as in police or FBI or CIA or DEA or whatever law enforcement agency you want to throw into this conversation.

what difference does it make that the NCAA is not a legal body? the same reasoning applies.

If the accusations are true then yes the NCAA should review the USC case....

USC deserved some punishment no doubt, but what they received was too much, especially in light of what happened to coach McNair.  So let's say it turns out that SC got the shaft, but it's decided after time served (so to speak) has been completed...what then? They got F'd and there's zip they can do about it. Btw...time served will be up soon, and we all know how these cases drag.

In the USC example put forth by Redlineltd, I submit that the lawsuits against the NCAA by McNair and the University could have a damning effect on the NCAA.  USC has damage claims which potentially could have been the loss of a NCG which results in the loss of millions and millions of dollars.  When an individual or an Institution hit the NCAA for 100+ million in lawsuits, the schools will shut the current format down as they are the ones who will ultimately pay for the NCAA mistakes.

There are currently a lot of lawsuits pending against the NCAA, many of which have substantial merit.  The McNair example at USC is most telling about the actions of the NCAA.  Haden has previously said he would have the University itself just move on from the Bush incident, but recent revelations about the widespread abuse of the NCAA and it's specific targeting of USC for unjust punishment has the USC legal team reconsidering it's options.

As to the crook in Miami, he was a tad more than a small time hood, he ripped a billion dollars.  That is the big time.

Yup!  Link below that shows how corrupt the organization has been since it's inception.  It is a very long article, but a great read on the history of the NCAA.

The NCAA didn't overpower the AAU.

The NCAA was put in place due to safety of the athletes and rampant cheating.  Schools combined to put the NCAA in place, and have always had the ultimate say in whatever the NCAA does to 'enforce' the rules that the schools want enforced.
 
That is a great article that I believe SmilesID linked to this site a while back.  The history of the NCAA isn't a very good tale to tell and is mired in controversy and corruption.  With that said, it is still the member instititution's idleness in this matters that has allowed these things to happen.   

If a school doesn't like a rule, or how they were sanctioned, they can always appeal and/or put forth the effort to get the rule changed.  OR, they can leave the NCAA altogether.

Every school that is a member of the NCAA has given their consent to be governed by the current rules at hand as well as the possibility of being investigated and sanctioned by the NCAA enforcement staff.  The enforcement staff, and more importantly the committees, are widely made up of  former and current employees of NCAA institutions.  Thus, for the most part, schools are being sanctioned by their peers.

The NCAA is supposedly an organizaton FOR its members.  It is time the members take that command and author the changes that need to be made instead of sitting idly by and pointing the finger at the employee they hired.

In the end, I'm all for the power schools leaving the NCAA to form their own newer and better organization.  Starting from scratch is probably the best way to make the necessary changes happen as opposed to trying to fix something that is so incredibly broken. 

I don't blame the NCAA.  I blame the schools and athletic departments that have sat by idly letting these things happen over decades of time and have done nothing to make the situation better.  What is sad, is that when money was on the line with TV and football, the schools got involved.  When it comes to literally everything else, the schools have sat on the sidelines and failed to participate in making it better.         
     

so geneh do you feel that way because they investigated your school? Are saying North Carolina was not guilty of what they were accused? Didnt they find a cheating scandal going on? Enlighten us.

What you don't know is whether any of the other recent penalties have been doled out fairly.  Obviously something wasn't done right with the Miami investigation or they wouldn't have "stopped" it whether that stop is temporary or permanent.  That gives the three most recent schools USC, OSU, & PSU every right to re-open said cases at least on their end.  Need I remind you YOU are the one that said we all know this is an isolated incident.  

I thought I would repost what I said  " So all we know is this was one isolated incident"  Do you see the difference and different meanings?


As far as the rest that was responded to by others. That was just a comparison not trying to say the NCAA was a legal authority.  

They need to scrap the whole thing. It took them over 7 months to decide if they would grant Jeff Tuel a 5th year but he was graduating so he said screw it. How can it take them so long and still not decide but it takes them 2 minutes to rule on a Cam Newton situation.

so geneh do you feel that way because they investigated your school? Are saying North Carolina was not guilty of what they were accused? Didnt they find a cheating scandal going on? Enlighten us.

No.

No.

Yes.

Anything else?

They slammed Penn State and USC too hard. I don't have a problem with what they did to UNC. Why don't you enlighten us as to why you feel the NCAAIC is such a fine, professional investigative body? 

what difference does it make that the NCAA is not a legal body? the same reasoning applies.     


What reasoning are you referring to?  But you're right...If the NCAA can screw up the Miami case the same reasoning could apply to USC, OSU, PSU.   

If the accusations are true then yes the NCAA should review the USC case....

USC deserved some punishment no doubt, but what they received was too much, especially in light of what happened to coach McNair.  So let's say it turns out that SC got the shaft, but it's decided after time served (so to speak) has been completed...what then? They got F'd and there's zip they can do about it. Btw...time served will be up soon, and we all know how these cases drag.

Redlineltd--I always felt that USC was culpable to an extent (if for no other reason that they stonewalled the whole investigation).  The whole case is pretty much based on heresay eveidence/second hand evidence.  Now with what has transpired with Miami, if USC decides to re-open what transpired, and asuming they can prove wrong doing on the NCAA's part, they can and should sue the NCAA. 
  

so geneh do you feel that way because they investigated your school? Are saying North Carolina was not guilty of what they were accused? Didnt they find a cheating scandal going on? Enlighten us.

Actually, some of this was proven not to be true at UNC and as a result Devon Ramsey had his eligibility restored...after the season ended.  As a matter of fact, one of the charges was allowing an "agent like creature" to hang out in the football facilities.  This individual did not work for an agent, but wanted to be one (even though he couldn't graduate from college).  UNC got in trouble with this guy because one of our defensive backs stayed at his house one weekend...even though they were best friends in high school and college.  So UNC was hung with a violation of a rule that didn't even exist...they made it up.  

What reasoning are you referring to?  But you're right...If the NCAA can screw up the Miami case the same reasoning could apply to USC, OSU, PSU. 

God forbid the NCAA from asking questions regarding the Bankruptcy proceedings involving Nevin Shaprio.

Let everyone go free.

Obvsiouly every convicted murderer in California should be set free because of the OJ Simpson case and the supposed tampering that occurred during that entire ordeal.            

What you don't know is whether any of the other recent penalties have been doled out fairly.  Obviously something wasn't done right with the Miami investigation or they wouldn't have "stopped" it whether that stop is temporary or permanent.  That gives the three most recent schools USC, OSU, & PSU every right to re-open said cases at least on their end.  Need I remind you YOU are the one that said we all know this is an isolated incident.  

I thought I would repost what I said  " So all we know is this was one isolated incident"  Do you see the difference and different meanings?


Post it as often as you like if it makes you feel better.  Bottom line, once and organization like the NCAA has opened the door to a mistake, there is a distinct possibility that it wasn't just  one isolated incident.  I have said whether it was being overzealous or just plain ignorant of the law, they are now on record as having errored.  As such any of these other schools have the right to re-open and look at all that transpired with their cases.  What, pray tell, are you actually afraid of?     

Makes me feel better?  You quoted me and was totally wrong.  You were putting words in my mouth that were not said, or just twisted them to mean something different.  Do you see now why I reposted that? 


 there is a distinct possibility that it wasn't just  one isolated incident.


Why?  Why is there a distince possibility that it wasn't an isolated incident?  There was one incident and that is all you know.  But due to that one incident you are saying "distinct possibility"?  I am a Buckeye fan, living in Ohio and there is no reason to reopen anything.    

What reasoning are you referring to?

if the actions of one individual cast the actions of the entire organization to which they belong under a cloud, why would that apply seperately for the NCAA and a law enforcement agency? why would a different standard be used? the only possible argument i could see is that law enforcement needs to be held to a higher standard - is that what u were arguing?

TF - I think it was Oregon.

Yup!  Link below that shows how corrupt the organization has been since it's inception.  It is a very long article, but a great read on the history of the NCAA.

Aww....,how cute.  Did you give me a 1 star post!

Next time around, I'd strongly suggest you read the article you post as evidence of your opinion before posting it as a positive stance standing behind your opinon. 

Not only that, if you want to start calling people out, have a solid understanding of the subject matter at hand.   

Why?  Why is there a distince possibility that it wasn't an isolated incident?  There was one incident and that is all you know.  But due to that one incident you are saying "distinct possibility"?  I am a Buckeye fan, living in Ohio and there is no reason to reopen anything.   


The NCAA has "supposedly self reported their own mistake.  Did they or did someone else show it to thme so the self reported?  I don't know.  but I don't recall any other time where the NCAA has openly admitted they f**ked up.  That opens the door for any and all kinds of possibilities.  If they were overzealous on one case, it's fair to assume they may have done something else wrong on these other cases as well.  For decades the NCAA has acted like they walk on wateer, and now even they have admitted to screwing up.  Look at what the sanctions have cost USC alone.  I would think it's only right and proper for the school (if not the NCAA just to protect it's omnipotent butt) to review their respective cases. 

Even if Ohio State was wrong, it would behoove them to review the case just to keep the NCAA honest.  Why?  Look at what it cost the school.  If the school found one error, then said school has every reason to throw the case out.  Plus, it will force the NCAA to review their guildlines in a more stringent manner.      

the only possible argument i could see is that law enforcement needs to be held to a higher standard - is that what u were arguing?


no.  the agency that needs to be held to a higher standard is the NCAA because it is in fact NOT a law enforcement agency.    

no.  the agency that needs to be held to a higher standard is the NCAA because it is in fact NOT a law enforcement agency.   

So the NCAA needs to be held to a higher standard than our law enforcement agencies?

A higher standard even though they cannot arrest people, put them in prison, utilize subpoenas, force their testimony in front of a grand jury, or much less excercise any reason to make people tell them the truth?

Fantastic.  

What is your grand plan for the NCAA to be as effective, (or more effective as you are alluding to) than our law enforcement agencies including the FBI and CIA, when they don't have anything sniffingly close to the interrogation tactics available to them? 

I can't wait to hear this explanation.