Dwight Howard is vexing me

I came across this article in the LAT from T.J. Simers called "Lakers' Dwight Howard says sitting out is painful for him too" and it got me thinking about this ongoing melodrama that's currently brewing with D-12 and his right shoulder...suffice it to say that I'm starting to get a little anxious and actually pretty annoyed about the whole thing.

[http://www.latimes.com/sports/baske
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As you all know, Howard took himself out of the game in Phoenix to start this grueling 7-game Grammy roadtrip with a little over 5 minutes left to play when Shannon Brown cleanly stripped him of the ball as he was going up for a shot, which is exactly when the Suns capped their comeback victory with Michael Beasley leading the charge against a suddenly very porous Lakers interior defense.

Then, as you all know, Howard flew back to LA to receive PRP therapy on the shoulder - which he is insisting he won't have surgery on - missing the Minnesota game in the process, and then flew to Detroit to re-join the team on the roadtrip where it was assumed he would be able to play against the Pistons.

Now it appears that Howard declared himself unable to go just prior to the game as he boarded the team bus for the ride to the Palace of Auburn Hills and informed Mike D'Antoni.

It's not surprising the way D'Antoni has established himself as a non-communicator, but apparently he was so taken aback by the surprise development, and his disgust was evident to others.

Here's the problem: The Lakers need everyone as they make a desperate push to find their game and make the playoffs.

And Howard appears healthy, because his arm isn't in a sling, his pain not visible, and he's still smiling.

No one can feel his pain, and some folks think a player should play through such pain because they don't feel it.

But Howard is coming off a year in which he did just that and further injured himself. It's a good reason to be cautious, but we don't even know whether Howard is doing that.

"I don't want to sit out — period," said Howard. "I know how important I can be to our team's success, but at the same time I don't want what happened last year to happen again.

"I played with a sore back as long as I could. I did everything, cracked it, popped it, had acupuncture, whatever to keep playing and I ended up hurting it really bad.

"I don't want that to happen to my shoulder."

So, what do you do with a guy who is clearly gun-shy about testing an injury that for all intents and purposes needs to be tested, especially with the Lakers facing such a critical time in their otherwise totally beleaguered season?  To complicate matters, and to their credit, the Lakers have been playing pretty well in his absence, especially Pau, and seem to have come together as a unit playing with their proverbial backs against the wall.

But, in spite of how relatively well they've been playing, especially on offense and to start these games, their is no question that the Lakers have exhibited a tendency to literally let their guard down under the best of circumstances and have shown themselves to be particularly adept at coughing up big leads, especially down the stretch of games.

As happy as I am about these last two road wins (the first in the new year) and the fact that the Lakers are now 5-1 since their "clear-the-air" team meeting in Memphis, I am extremely concerned about the inherent lack of defensive integrity that's being displayed with Howard being shuttled in and out of the lineup.

There is no doubt that the Lakers NEED Howard to ultimately compete and consistently win games, especially against the better teams in this league, but I also can't help but thinking that the Lakers actually seem to play more cohesively as a unit with Gasol anchoring the center position and thus being much more aggressive than when he is relegated to sixth man status and then to the perimeter when he and Howard are in the game together.

But, more to the point, what is it going to take to convince Dwight that he's going to have to take a page out of both Kobe and Lamar Odom's playbook - both of whom played through a simuilar injury to their labrums in past years - and gut it out not only for the betterment of the team, but to further send the message to his teammated and coaches that he can be counted on when he is needed the most?

It'll be very interesting to see where this story goes - starting in Brooklyn tomorrow night - and continuing on in Boston on Thursday, Charlotte on Friday and then, of course, to end the trip in South Beach against the Heat on ABC-TV on Sunday.  The Lakers have to win at least three of these next four team in order to continue to put the pressure on Portland, Houston and Utah in their quest to not only make the playoffs but prove to themselves and all other comers that they're truly contenders as presently constituted.

My understanding is that Dwight is already unlikely to play tomorrow in Brooklyn -- that being the case, why would he take a chance on hurting himself vs. Charlotte (aside from the fact that the team needs to win just about every time they hit the court)?  We'll probably see him in the lineup again on Sunday.  Here's hoping he doesn't develop a toothache or something that might get worse if he plays.

I realize his current injury is painful, but if it's a matter of fear at the moment and NOT pain, his A$$ should be on the court with his teammates.     

I take that back....we will probably see him on the court vs. Boston.  

He has a serious injury, its inflamed right now, the only thing that will work (besides surgery) is rest. He says hes in pain when he plays, I wouldn't want him playing until he is pain free and has full range of motion.

Well Jef only he knows his body, he knows what and what not he can play through. In this case, I understand both sides. Yes we need him out there as each game is critical, but then again I can understand him not wanting to keep re-aggravating the injury. As for his back, I'm watched the 1st part of this interview with him and Stephen A.(2nd part coming up now), and he said sometimes his legs go numb when he sits down just for a brief amount of time and said his back is "at 75 percent".

Well Jef only he knows his body, he knows what and what not he can play through.

...Kold, and therein lies precisely the source of my angst.  I'm not sure I like this idea that Howard is the be-all end-all when it comes to whether or not he's prepared to play.

He has a serious injury, its inflamed right now, the only thing that will work (besides surgery) is rest.

570...says who???  His doctor?  The team doctor??  The guy who spun his blood and re-injected it into his right shoulder???  ...Howard himself????  Who are we to trust?  And to what extent are we to believe that Dwight has the team's best interests at heart?  Does he even have a heart???

He says hes in pain when he plays, I wouldn't want him playing until he is pain free and has full range of motion.

Jesus...when will that be???  NOBODY in this league plays totally "pain free".

The other thing that bothers me is that there was zero physical contact with the ailing shoulder on the play that knocked him out of last Wednesday's game in Phoenix - he got the ball stripped out of his hands...do you realize how many times that occurs with Howard in the course of every game he plays?  I'd go so far as to say that this happens more often than not.

If surgery is the only thing that's going to allow this thing to heal up completely so that we can get Howard back on the floor to the full extent that we and the team can fully depend on him, then so be it.  I'd rather go that route than have a guy on the floor who is liable to "go numb" the moment bothers to even challenge his shot - which is exactly what Shannon Brown did...

And to what extent are we to believe that Dwight has the team's best interests at heart?  Does he even have a heart???

This is really the crux of your point Jef.  There's no reason to beat around the bush for 9 paragraphs when simply saying this would suffice.  You don't trust Howard.  You think he's a selfish player who puts his own interests ahead of the team, I'm guessing largely due to how he's conducted himself over the past year.  We get it.  It's the media propaganda anti-Dwight train that has been driving Laker nation this year.

I couldn't disagree more with the majority of your post..

The other thing that bothers me is that there was zero physical contact with the ailing shoulder on the play that knocked him out of last Wednesday's game in Phoenix - he got the ball stripped out of his hands...do you realize how many times that occurs with Howard in the course of every game he plays?

It doesn't matter that there was no direct physical contact to the shoulder.  Shannon came down incredibly hard on Dwight's hand, which pulled it down and jolted his shoulder.  That was much harder of a strip than Dwight usually endures, because it didn't just make contact with the ball.  That was a full fledged wind up with definite power, not a mere strip.  IMO that kind of contact (a poweful pulling jolt to the shoulder) would probably hurt more in this injury than just straight physical contract to the shoulder.  Regardless, that was not just your average strip

If surgery is the only thing that's going to allow this thing to heal up completely so that we can get Howard back on the floor to the full extent that we and the team can fully depend on him, then so be it.

Recovery from surgery for a torn shoulder labrum is 6 months.  If he gets surgery this season is finished.  You can't give Dwight even a slight amount of credit in believing he's at least considering this and thus putting the team in front of his own health by NOT getting surgery?  

Two final points:

1.We've all been spolled by Kobe's ability to play through injuries.  It's his best quality.  Arguably no one in the history of the league has done it more effectively (or willingly).  You can't superimpose that standard onto other players, because honestly no one will measure up.  And while yea, ideally everything would be team first, Dwight does have himself to consider.  He's coming off back surgery in a contract year.  Anyone in that situation would at least consider their own financial and physical well being.  We're talking about over $100 million at stake here. Even Kobe at Dwight's age, thus looking for his last big contract before turning 30, would weigh these factors.  Dwight doesn't have a league high $30 million guaranteed to fall back on next season..

2.More importantly and one point that undermines most of your stance: if Dwight was so selfish why wouldn't he have just sat out until his back healed?  Initially we thought Dwight could sit out until mid to late January.  Did he do that?  No.  He suited up at the opener. If he were acting in complete self-interest he would have sat out until he was 100% insteaf of playing at 50.. 

I get it.  Everyone is frustrated.  Dwight may be an immature punk, but I can't support the sentiment that this guy is an ego-maniac who cares nothing for the success of this team.  What has transpired this year simply doesn't support it.  The idea that Dwight is "milking" this shoulder injury for all intents and purposes is laughable to me.  He's many things, but I think that is going too far.

Just food for thought..


 

Another worthwhile point: what if we still had your boy Bynum Jef?  You know, the guy who goes out bowling coming off surgery on his knee and fks it up even more.  And how many games has he played this year?  Dwight's commitment to the team looks pretty good compared to Prince Jr. no?

Great points both of you, but I'd have to go with QID on this one...Howard is going to play when he feels he can help without risking further injury...I actually have a feeling he is gauging the competition...I think the Suns game he was hurt but felt the Lakers could handle the next games especially with him not feeling his best...I'd be shocked not to see him in Miami, I'm pretty sure he plays Boston outside of that he may sit out...ironically I think he is most needed vs the Bobcats as they have 2 guys (Walker and Sessions) who will attack our middle more than anyone other than the Heat:..

Glad you brought up Bynum Q, because my concern isn't so much that Howard is milking his injury, but that it now seems that Howard is becoming almost as injury prone as Bynum. I mean how the hell can this team develop chemistry and play with any consistency if Howard keeps getting hurt?

I do think that Howard is kind of a punk(I don't like seeing players smiling and laughing after losses). But as far as his injury goes, in Howard's defense the mentality of playing with injuries has changed now with the insane money these guys are making, and the ease that players now move from team to team. The loyalty and dedication to one's team is not what it once was(Kobe is and exception). Hell for all we know Howard is going to walk after the season(Not likely, but certainly possible). Again I don't think he's milking the injury but he's not going to play hurt and risk further injury if he doesn't have to.

I can't believe you Q. I completely disagree. I went in to my stressful job today, of sitting in a chair editing video, with a moderately bruised right pinky toe. I told my employers about the sacrafice I'm making for this company, and if anything I should get a 500% raise immediately. 

Dwight needs to get healthy. He knows his history and his body pain threshhold better than anyone. Do you know what I hate? Is people who tough it out and play through injuries and only hurt themselves worse. Do you know who did that? Matt Kemp.... ran into a wall and tried to play hurt and his entire season sunk as did the Dodgers.

Playing hurt is stupid. Kobe playing through all his injuries is stupid. He's lucky he didn't get hurt worse and he's lucky he was able to be effective. He's the exception not the rule.


By the way, anybody hiring? 

You don't trust Howard.

You know what?  Come to think of it, you're right - I don't trust Howard - that's a much better way of putting it.

It doesn't matter that there was no direct physical contact to the shoulder.  Shannon came down incredibly hard on Dwight's hand, which pulled it down and jolted his shoulder.

Horsesht...Shannon got all ball and I guess because Howard was gripping the ball so tight, the recoil of the ball being stripped away had some bizarre slingshot effect on the whole mechanism that was his hand-arm-shoulder - point is, there was no physical contact on any part of Howard's hand, arm or shoulder.

Again, if somehow getting cleanly stripped of the ball constitues an injury risk moving forward, then "Houston, we have a problem" because stripping the ball from Dwight Howard is practically a national basketball association pastime...guys are literally lining up to strip Howard of the ball.

Recovery from surgery for a torn shoulder labrum is 6 months.  If he gets surgery this season is finished.  You can't give Dwight even a slight amount of credit in believing he's at least considering this and thus putting the team in front of his own health by NOT getting surgery?

You know what? I can't give him credit for that, and this is precisely why I'm so vexed about this situation.  I'm not saying that by NOT getting surgery he is hurting the team, I'm saying that by NOT getting surgery and not owning that decision, he is indirectly hurting the team...because right now, he is neither here nor there - he's literally in no man's land with this thing and he's not doing anyone any favors, least of all himself.

2.More importantly and one point that undermines most of your stance: if Dwight was so selfish why wouldn't he have just sat out until his back healed?  Initially we thought Dwight could sit out until mid to late January.  Did he do that?  No.  He suited up at the opener. If he were acting in complete self-interest he would have sat out until he was 100% insteaf of playing at 50..

There's another way of looking at this Q, and that is that perhaps Dwight's coming back early from the back surgery rehab was really more about repairing his own battered image than doing what was in the best interest of the Lakers.  We were all thrilled, ooohh'd and aaahhhh'd when we heard that Dwight was going to be there on opening night...but, as it turns out, the Lakers have also been jumping through a seemingly endless array of hoops in dealing with Howard's glaring inconsistencies this season, not to mention his personality quirks.

I get it.  Everyone is frustrated.  Dwight may be an immature punk, but I can't support the sentiment that this guy is an ego-maniac who cares nothing for the success of this team.  What has transpired this year simply doesn't support it.  The idea that Dwight is "milking" this shoulder injury for all intents and purposes is laughable to me.  He's many things, but I think that is going too far.

Q, I don't think he's necessarily "milking" his injury, I just think he's pussyfooting around it and is unwittingly holding the team hostage as a result.

And here's the real rub - I sooooooooooo want him to beast!  The team so desperately needs him to get it together and be the best that he can be that's it's ridiculous.  But, the funny thing is that anything less than a fully engaged, fully dominant Dwight Howard is actually something of a liability out there.  Take away his explosiveness and take away his confidence in his own God-given ability to dominate and you're basically left with a big, clunky fouling, turnover machine with who can't create his own, needs to be spoon-fed the ball, and can't hit a free throw to save his life.

I really don't like being so harsh on Dwight because after going back and forth with the whole Dwight vs. Bynum thing for a good chunk of last season and last summer, I totally came around to embrace Dwight Howard as a Lakers and the future face of the franchise...I'm just not so sure anymore.

I really, really, really hope he emerges to prove me wrong...because if he doesn't, the Lakers franchise is going to be caught between a rock and a seriously hard place.

I know Howard is the only "future" this team currently has, but over the last 2 1/2 seasons I've grown so tired of him that the combination of current events (Pau's play, Atlanta's public interest in Dwight, Dwight's so-so attitude about returning, Lakers' up-tempo success) leads me to believe IF the Lakers can get something like Horford and Lou Williams from Atlanta, they should do it.  Horford is no Dwight defensively, but he's pretty darn good.  He's basically the same age, he has no injury concerns either long-term or for this season, and offensively he's not only more talented than Dwight, but likes to play the type of game that D'Antoni likes (which also allow Pau to be Pau).

little over 5 minutes left to play when Shannon Brown cleanly stripped him of the ball as he was going up for a shot,

Not that Im defending him, but Shannon Brown got all writst on that....Maybe some ball, but the majority of the blow got Dwights wrist and in turn goes all the way up the shoulder...

With plays like that it's usually the shoulder that takes the brunt of the injury....So IDK if the point of the post was to call him out for maybe faking or being over dramatic about the shoulder, I don't think he is...

I don't have much to add, most folks here know how I feel about Howard already anyway.  He's the best center in the league.  Drew is his only challenger in that department.  We made that decision last summer, and I still think it was the right one, as much as I truly admire Drew.      

But it was pretty eye-opening for me to learn that Howard's legs still go numb when he's sitting down.  That's not good, and as much as I hate to say it, that has to be a consideration for the franchise going forward.  Can't believe he put that out there in a contract year, must think someone will pay max regardless, and he's probably right but if Howard were my client I'd be screaming at him right now to shut the f up, sit if you're hurt, and again just shut the f up.  

Gasol is looking good, we can live with Howard recovering for a little while.  I love how Gasol came out and basically skewered D'Antoni's small ball "system" to T.J. yesterday btw.  More basketball minds need to be calling D'Antoni out on this.  In my opinion, small ball is what you do when you don't have talented bigs, not a first option, ever.       

QID/Jefe, I get both of your points.  Very intriguing arguement indeed!

The only thing I have to add is that I see an extremely immature egomaniac in Howard.  I don't want "the face of the Lakers' franchise" to be Dwight Howard.  The Lakers are a class organization with a long lineage the likes of Kareem, Magic, West, Baylor, Worthy, etc...

You see what happens when we have a self-centered cry baby on the roster, he gets traded (ie:  Shaquille O'Neal).

What did it for me was the game versus Phoenix when our dear D12 was covering his face at the end of the game to hide his pleasure.  He seemed happy that the Lakers could not pull out the game without his services in the paint.   

I would like to add, although Kobe overcomes just about everything injury wise and Lamar played through neither of them withstand the constant beatings under the rim Howard withstands night in and night out.


I am not a Howard supporter, but I do understand the shoulder injuries and how difficult it can be when every team we face is hell bent on fouling him hard so he goes to the line and can't finish.  Therefore he will continue to get beat on until the league starts enforcing rules better.  The first is flagrant fouls.  half the time he gets fouled it is with the intent of fouling him and sending him to the line and no intent on getting to the ball.  The league knows it and allows it.  i would love for one ref to put their foot down and start calling some flagrant fouls that are obvious that they are straight fouling him for that intent as they do it with a malicious intent, because if they don't it can be a three point opportunity.  But even if they called it a smidgen of the time his health could be sustained. 


In the league today their is noone that gets fouled in such flagrant manner as he is constantly.  There are very few plays where he is not either being pulled pushed or hacked, but yet it is common place that the refs overlook it to try to keep some flow tothe game.  With that being said I understand a little on both sides, but the refs still need to call a few more flagrants if nothing else to prevent one of the more dominant big men in the game right now from having his career cut short due to blatant disregard to his health by other teams.  Not everything needs to be a flagrant and not everything is, but Howard can also learn from some of the fouls and the way he is getting fouled to better protect himself and one way would be to set screens away from the ball and then roll to the basket a lost art in my opinion.  Scenario Nash has the ball, set screen for Kobe to roll away from his guy and the receive an alley-oop pass from Kobe off a touch pass from Nash.  This will probably come in the future, but these are the types of plays that will help minimalize his injuries.     

Not that Im defending him, but Shannon Brown got all writst on that....Maybe some ball, but the majority of the blow got Dwights wrist and in turn goes all the way up the shoulder...

With plays like that it's usually the shoulder that takes the brunt of the injury....So IDK if the point of the post was to call him out for maybe faking or being over dramatic about the shoulder, I don't think he is..

jaked, not to beat a dead horse, but it looked like a clean strip to me.  The link below is the replay of the event from a couple of different angles...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0prRBf1BhAM

If Shannon did get wrist, by the looks of it it may have been the left wrist and not the right wrist...again, we're talking about his right shoulder here.

Look, I'm not saying Howard didn't experience pain as a result of the play, all I'm saying is that it was a routine play and emblematic of exactly the kind of physical play that Howard is going to be routinely experiencing in the painted area.  Look, all I'm saying is that if him taking himself out of games every time someone strips the ball away from him - clean or not - is going to be the result, then I submit to you that the Lakers are going to be in a world of hurt if he's going to continue to play through this labrum injury.

The other thing that annoyed me is that he goes back to LA for the PRP therapy, missing the T-Wolves game, flies back to rejoin the team in Detroit, and then informs D'Antoni on the team bus on the way to the game that he's not ready to play.

Who knows when he'll be truly ready to play, such as it is.  And who knows when one more physical play in the post will knock him out again.  I don't know - this situation is bad, real bad.  The uncertainty and hesitancy of it all is driving me bonkers.

Again, I really like Howard and there is NO DOUBT that he not only makes the Lakers a much better team when he's playing, especially defensively, but is essential to the Lakers postseason hopes should they make the playoffs - which I am convinced they will.

I just want him to go out there and consolidate his position - in sum and substance - as not only the best center in the NBA, but as the guy the Lakers can truly feel positive about building around and as the future face of the franchise.

Nice post above, jefe101.

Again, if somehow getting cleanly stripped of the ball constitues an injury risk moving forward, then"Houston, we have a problem" because stripping the ball from Dwight Howard is practically a national basketball association pastime...guys are literally lining up to strip Howard of the ball

You saw a clean strip.  I saw hand.  Someone else saw wrist.  Semantics.  Clearly Howard's shoulder was jolted by Shannon's swipe, which you can't argue was an ordinary swipe.  Watch the replay again.  That was a full-on wind up.  Am I saying that it absolutely wont happen again?  No.  But typically Dwight doesn't get stripped that hard.  He even got stripped other times in that game and nothing happened.  I think it was an extreme case.

I'm not saying that by NOT getting surgery he is hurting the team, I'm saying that by NOT getting surgery and not owning that decision, he is indirectly hurting the team...because right now, he is neither here nor there - he's literally in no man's land with this thing and he's not doing anyone any favors, least of all himself.

You're being such an extremist.  So it has to be either surgery or play?  There is no middle ground?  The only two things that can help Dwight is rest or surgery.  He's choosing the former.  He could very well bail on this team if he chooses to and opt for surgery, and LA would fall into oblivion. He's choosing to at the very least leave the door open..

There's another way of looking at this Q, and that is that perhaps Dwight's coming back early from the back surgery rehab was really more about repairing his own battered image than doing what was in the best interest of the Lakers.  We were all thrilled, ooohh'd and aaahhhh'd when we heard that Dwight was going to be there on opening night...but, as it turns out, the Lakers have also been jumping through a seemingly endless array of hoops in dealing with Howard's glaring inconsistencies this season, not to mention his personality quirks.

I disagree.  LA was really the only fanbase in the league who was still in Dwight's corner after the trade.  Dwight could have sat until January easy and you or anyone else weren't going anywhere.  The intrigue with getting the best center in the league was too great.  No one in this fanbase would have held it against him for making sure he was 100% coming off back surgery.  His reputation everywhere else is already condemned until he wins a title like LeBron.  Also, star players don't typically play at 50%.  No great player wants to look like a shell of himself on the court.  Even Kobe when his injuries greatly affect his play sits, because he wont be seen as ineffective compared to his norm.  

I see nothing for Dwight to gain in this scenario.  It was solely the team' gain (or was supposed to and intended to be).

Q, I don't think he's necessarily "milking" his injury, I just think he's pussyfooting around it and isunwittingly holding the team hostage as a result.

No, you're just frustrated and have finally come to the realization that this team might not even make the playoffs, so for the first time in a long time desperation is kicking in for you..

I really, really, really hope he emerges to prove me wrong...because if he doesn't, the Lakers franchise is going to be caught between a rock and a seriously hard place.

Case in point.. Welcome to the damn club, finally... LA's immediate and long-term future rests with Dwight, which some of us have been saying since LAST YEAR before we got him.  It seems you're finally coming to terms with this reality, and it appears to be an unfortunate one (as it is for most).