trojanfan, oh ok i see what ur saying. i wasnt try to say that espn was bias either, i was just making the point no matter where they did the interview espn would cover the story!

I think the report on Sunday will prove that.
"I think" is not a definitive statement. It means I think that this is what the report will prove, but will watch and see what the report shows before making a final determination.


I disagree, when you said I think x will happen.  To me that means you have predetermined the outcome.   


As far as this statement:

Just more talk about how great of a man that was Joe Paterno.


Do you really think the family would pay for and release a report that say anything different?  I think, yes I said it, that Joe will look like a guy who did all he could do and the others were fully responsible for what happened.  I think also means that I am not definite but right now I have predetermined my opinion with what this report will say.   

I see Blueprints argument.  If one claims to have gone over a specific amount of material and that turns out to be false, IMO, that person is either a liar or does not know his business; both subtract from his credibility.  Makes sense to me.    


Either that, or the Freeh Report never claims to have read 3.5 million emails.  We have computers now, and what actually makes sense is that they started with 3.5 million emails and through a number of searches (or analysis) of dates, names, key words, etc. narrowed it down to a less absurd number.  And regardless, they only offered a handful of emails as actual evidence.  . Had they claimed to have 3 million emails that prove the guilt of Paterno, Curley, etc., that would be one thing.  Anyone not looking specifically to find bias or flaws in the Freeh Report will take the statement at face value, and not intentionally play dumb to grasp for an intent that simply isn't there    If someone wants to argue against a claim that was never made, that's fine.  But it's a fairly weak argument.  And I think there is enough in the Freeh Report to form legit arguments against. 

Is a definitive statement meaning that the poster believes that they already "know" what will be in the report without having read it, so they have no need to bother watching.

Yes, it is a definitive statement.  And one I'll stand behind even after tomorrow.  And yes, I have done enough research and done the homework to make such a statement. 

As for 'report'?  What 'report' are we going to get tomorrow?  There will be no report.  It will be statements made by Joe Paterno's family.  That and their opinion of the events.

Did you believe Ted Kaczynski or David Berkowitz were innocent before their trials?  Maybe we need to hear from Charles Manson?  Certainly you have done the research on those events to consider all of them guilty prior to opining as much?

Did you believe Ted Kaczynski or David Berkowitz were innocent before their trials?  Maybe we need to hear from Charles Manson?

Amazing.....Coach Paterno lived his entire life developing children and you compare his actions to those of Charles Manson.  Wow.  Just f'n wow.   

I see diffy was banned again..looks like there is a pops lurker around here

Who cares? Diffy/barnocki is just as much of an idiot as the person he despises. 

I disagree, when you said I think x will happen.  To me that means you have predetermined the outcome.

Thinking that something will happen and knowing it will happen are 2 different things. I think that the Miami Heat will crush the Lakers tomorrow (which sucks because I'm a Laker fan. LOL!!). But I will watch the game because I do not know that the Heat will crush the Lakers. If I state that I know the Heat will crush them, then I have no reason to watch the game (unless I'm a Heat fan).

Do you really think the family would pay for and release a report that say anything different?  I think, yes I said it, that Joe will look like a guy who did all he could do and the others were fully responsible for what happened.  I think also means that I am not definite but right now I have predetermined my opinion with what this report will say.

I think that the family would pay for the report, to find out. However, if the report agreed with the Freeh Report, I don't think it would be released. This is why, as another poster said, I will watch with an open mind and then try to remove as much bias as possible from both sides before making a final determination.

One thing that I have stated consistently is that if i see anything definitive that shows that JoePa was culpable in this, I will accept that and change my view of him.

Amazing.....Coach Paterno lived his entire life developing children and you compare his actions to those of Charles Manson.  Wow.  Just f'n wow. 

Where did I compare Joe Paterno to any of these individuals?

Thanks for taking my comments out of context.

Do you care to take any of my original thoughts/facts out of context, or do accept everything I stated earlier as being fact, or of sound opinion?

There will be no report.  It will be statements made by Joe Paterno's family.  That and their opinion of the events.

Did you believe Ted Kaczynski or David Berkowitz were innocent before their trials?  Maybe we need to hear from Charles Manson?

You wrote it, correct?  The above is a comparison. No I don't believe Kacznski, Berkowitz or Manson.  I will give the Paterno's the benifit of the doubt. What else could your statement mean other than to be a comparison between Kacznski, Brkowitz and Manson and the Paterno's.?

Your first whine was "Why ESPN".  Now you make comparisons and refuse to acknowledge them.

I'm debating with a teen.....correct? 

I'm debating with a teen.....correct? 

After last week, I may be debating with someome who graduated top 1% of their University.    

You wrote it, correct?  The above is a comparison. No I don't believe Kacznski, Berkowitz or Manson.  I will give the Paterno's the benifit of the doubt. What else could your statement mean other than to be a comparison between Kacznski, Brkowitz and Manson and the Paterno's.?

Your first whine was "Why ESPN".  Now you make comparisons and refuse to acknowledge them.

I'm debating with a teen.....correct?

Go back and read the first page.  Give me a rebuttal of anything stated in my iniital response. 

If that is too difficult for you to grasp, then I'm not sure what to say.

If you want to keep putting your own words into my posts to make a point, so be it.  Most will see through it. 

As for your last comment?  A wise man once said:  "You are never as old or wise as you think you are".   

let them die peacefully.

John Zielger smokes the meat whistle!!

Everyone in the PSU athletic department and administration involved in the cover up is guilty (that includes JoePa). The NCAA laid down punishment harsh enough that it should deter any other athletic department or administration to allow it to happen again. the Paterno family needs to learn for JoePa's mistake and move on. I do feel bad for the current players at PSU, but the punishments for the schools on NCAA violations always hurt the people not involved.

 I will watch with an open mind and then try to remove as much bias as possible from both sides before making a final determination.

One thing that I have stated consistently is that if i see anything definitive that shows that JoePa was culpable in this, I will accept that and change my view of him.     



I am with you on this.  If I see anything definitive that shows JoePa did not have any idea what was going on, I will will accept that and change my view of him.   

As for 'report'?  What 'report' are we going to get tomorrow?  There will be no report.  It will be statements made by Joe Paterno's family.  That and their opinion of the events.

Did you believe Ted Kaczynski or David Berkowitz were innocent before their trials?  Maybe we need to hear from Charles Manson?  Certainly you have done the research on those events to consider all of them guilty prior to opining as much?...HuckerOC

Maybe you are not getting the news.  NO report? There is in fact a 150 page report that will be discussed tomorrow morning, probably already given to ESPN  and will be posted on the internet. 


That would be YOU that compared the Paterno situation to Kaczynski, B erkowitz, and Manson.  As I read your statement, you make the assumption that because everyone knew the 3 killers were guilty, they should know Paterno was guilty.    Amazing you would deny something on this very page that you wrote. 

Jonvi is absolutely correct and you are absolutely wrong.  Sorry.           

Maybe you are not getting the news.  NO report? There is in fact a 150 page report that will be discussed tomorrow morning, probably already given to ESPN  and will be posted on the internet.


That would be YOU that compared the Paterno situation to Kaczynski, B erkowitz, and Manson.  As I read your statement, you make the assumption that because everyone knew the 3 killers were guilty, they should know Paterno was guilty.    Amazing you would deny something on this very page that you wrote.

Jonvi is absolutely correct and you are absolutely wrong.  Sorry

Wow.

I seriously don't even know what to say anymore.    

Yes.  I'll be watching tomorrow in some glimmer of hope that Joe Pa and his 40+ year relationship with Jerry Sandusky was one of pure professionlism and that Joe Pa wasn't somehow involved.

I'll try to believe that a man that devoted his entire life to Penn State was somehow obscure of any knowledge about a man he knew for over 40 years was a pedophile and that he knew nothing about it.

I'd like to hear that.  I really would.  Unfortunatley reality has it's own course.
      

 

i tell ya , i have no ill will towards penn state! but i dont get how people dont think joe pa was atleast part of the cover up, how much was he involved? i dont know and iam open minded and will wait to listen to all sides! but i find it funny on one hand its like joe pa ran the place , then something bad happens and its like he was hardly ever at penn state! oh well i guess fair people will wait and see what washs out!

http://articles.mcall.com/2013-02-0
8/news/mc-congressman-discusses-sue
-paterno-report--20130208_1_freeh-r
eport-sue-paterno-freeh-investigati
on

Here is an article about State Representative Charlie Dent talking about the Paterno report.. (He has read it already) Here are some highlights for those that will not read the article. (Which I would guess that most of you won't)


 "To blame the culture of Penn State for Sandusky's crimes is a horrible mistake," Dent said Friday, characterizing the findings of one of the experts commissioned by the Paterno family. "To blame the culture of Penn State or even the football program … is not supported by the facts."

 The entire Penn State culture was punished based on this report," Dent said, adding that he will call for congressional hearings on the NCAA's decision.

 

Dent said the Paterno family's review comprises reports by four experts, including a former U.S. attorney general whom Dent would not identify. "The former attorney general says the Freeh report is seriously flawed, very flawed," Dent said.

Dent said the other expert whose summary the congressman had reviewed was a former FBI official, who worked with and expressed respect for Freeh. Dent characterized him as one of the nation's leading experts on sexual predators.

"This guy has investigated hundreds of child sexual predators, including ones at the FBI," Dent said.

The FBI official concluded that the Freeh investigation "essentially ignores everything that has been learned about child sexual victimization over the last few decades," Dent said.

 

Either that, or the Freeh Report never claims to have read 3.5 million emails. 

http://ccj.asu.edu/news-events/news
/read-the-freeh-report-on-penn-stat
es-failure:

Read the Freeh Report on Penn State's failure

A 267-page report by former FBI director Louis Freeh found individual and institutional failures by Pennsylvania State University administrators in the wake of child sex abuse allegations against former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky. The 68-year old retired coach was convicted on 45 counts of sex abuse of minors in June. 

Freeh and a team of investigators conducted 430 interviews and examined 3.5 million emails and other documents, but did not talk to three high ranking individuals blamed for failing to report the abuse: former Penn State athletic director Tim Curley, former vice president of finances Gary Schultz and former Penn State coach Joe Paterno who died from lung cancer in January.