The Diehard Breakdown: Baylor 80 WVU 60

When you are growing up as a basketball player, you learn little things as a youngster like boxing out, keeping your palms up on defense, never turning your back on the ball, etc.  One thing I learned at an early age was when a player was on the floor that looked like Opie Taylor with no athletic ability, he wasn’t there to drive to the hoop, play clamp down defense , or rebound—he was in there to shoot. Our basketball team is so stupid when it comes to taking care of the ball and knowing who and where the shooter is. It is absolutely pathetic to think that we can’t take out the other teams best 3pt shooter. I have seen it all year long: Pangos, OKLA, ST guard, and the list goes on. How stupid can you be?  It is beyond comprehension to me that you don’t communicate with your teammates where the shooter is and who has him. We give up 6 3pt FG to the guy and never once tried to stop him.  I will say that when you don’t have anybody to keep Jackson from penetrating, it can create space for the shooter but still—we gave no effort. 

Several things contribute to this loss: 1) the oppositions penetration off the dribble. I counted 4 dunks in the first half and at least 5 in the second half and they were all on assists 2) turnovers; we give it up 18 times which gives the opponent 13 more shots.3) not guarding the shooter & 4) offensively: What in the heck are we running ? We bring Kalici out high, Noreen out high, Rutledge out high and they all are handling the ball while the defense was packing it in like a can of sardines. Question for ya? What good does all those cuts do? Nobody on Baylor was buying into those three firing up 3 pt shots and making them. I blame the coaches on the offensive woes because this team is not a half court set type of team. If you have any chance in hell of winning with these idiots, you need to push the ball and make good decisions. No way am I gonna let these opponents disrespect your inability to shoot the 3 like they do. If you lose by 20 in a half court set, why not? If we can’t score easy buckets, we wont win because of our IQ and inability to shoot the ball well consistently for 40 minutes.

So in conclusion, they got their arses handed to them tonight. Its 2 steps forward and 1 step back and we are back to the same old BS basketball we have seen all year. It is just tough to watch a team play this poorly. Maybe we get next time--maybe.

I was afraid we'd see something like this performance once we played a quality team.  On some other threads this week, I mentioned the defense had not really improved that much... just the competition was weaker.  I think last night proved that this team still has a low basketball IQ.  Most of the TO's and forgetting where Heslip was on the court... a matter of low IQ.

Vandy can keep telling me WVU can compete with any team in the Big 12 all he wants, but until we start knocking off some of the better teams in this conference... consistently... I will not buy in to this team doing any better than I predicted a few weeks ago... 6-10 in their last 16 games... 2-6 in their last 8.  WVU has beaten 1 team with an above .500 record to date... EKU.

I was shocked to hear the announcers say this was the least talented team Huggy has ever had... shocked I tell you...

The defense was awful last night... allowing dunks and layups... and wide open 3's.  The offense was looking good when it successfully got the ball into Deniz... and when they were cutting well in the motion.  I did not like the offense when they were unable to feed Deniz in the post... as everyone else just stood around watching.  Don't understand why our guards cannot feed him the ball... after all this time.

I thought Deniz played a hell of a game.

Well... at least we have TT coming up next at home.  We should crush them... then all the homers will think this team is ready for a big push through the Dance. 

Sorrowful defense.  I actually stayed up to watch this mess until about 7 minutes left in the game.  It hurt to hear the announcers say that this was Huggins least talented team, but, it is sadly true.  Eternal optomist tho, I don't think Huggins has ever had back-to-back bad seasons.  He will rid the team of players who refuse to learn, and next year, we will be a better team.  bbwvfan, you were right, but I had hoped you were wrong.

Yes not guarding their top 3-pt. shooter was an issue as it has been most of the year, but to me the biggest issue is we apparently have no idea how to defend the high screen.  That is the only play Baylor ran for most of the game.  The most important thing about guarding the high screen-roll is to not let either the dribbler or the screener to go unabated to the basket, and yet that's what happened over and over and over, especially in the first half.  Nearly all of Baylor points in the first half were layups. Why?  Because we allowed either the dribbler or the screener a free path to the basket.  Then our down low defender left his man who then got the pass for an easy layup.  I thought we would figure it out at some point, but of course I was wrong.
  One thing I've noticed about this team is that when they make a bad play or the ref makes a call against us, they complain or hang their heads.  Get your ass back down the court and play defense.  Complainig to the refs is the coach's job.
  On a side note, that was the worst officiated game I have seen this year. Double dribble not called. 3-second call because Deniz's foot was touching the line for the lane.  Way, way way too many fouls called.  You cannot play Big East defense with these refs.  And their translation of the moving screen is different than anywhere I have ever seen.  Way too many moving screens called.  Way too many fouls called when a player is making a cut off the basketball.  Our big guys have been in foul trouble every single league game this year.  Not only does all these foul calls slow down the flow of the game, it also reduces the quality of the game when the starters all have to spend time on the bench because touch fouls are called.  Not saying it is why we lost.  It was bad for both teams, though it did favor Baylor a little.

On the play where Deniz got the T, there was no contact whatsoever.

Excellent point of which I failed to mention was the officiating. I guess I was just too pissed off to go into that aspect of the game. The officiating was the worst I have seen all year but at least it has been consistently BAD. The officiating in this league is way to tight and unfortunately, we havent adjusted to it. We have to play aggressive in your face defense to have a chance to win because quite frankly--we are not as talented and big as most opponents. Officiating in this league allows more athletic teams to thrive because the slower less athletic teams cant get physical. It puts a premium on shooting and gives the offense more benefit of the doubt when it comes to driving the lane. That is what I have seen so far and it helps the more gifted teams.

Weren't people saying this year's team was going to be more athletic?

Are they not more athletic?

I definitely feel they are more athletic, and I don't see why Miles (the most athletic player on the team) can't get on the court.  Their issues are not lack of athleticism.  They are 1. Poor shooting.  2. Lack of basketball smarts.

Are they not more athletic?

Yes and No.

The starting line-up used for the last 5 games is less athletic than last year's.

Kilicli, Noreen, Hinds, Browne and Harris... compared to Kilicli, Jones, Bryant, Hinds and Miles.

Off the bench, this team is slightly more athletic... using Murray instead of Rutledge, and Staten and Henderson are slightly more athletic than Browne and Brown.

My original point is that this year's team was supposed to close the gap with other teams in athleticisim.... and, it hasn't happened.  Teams are still quicker, and playing more above the rim... than this year's team.

It would be difficult for this team to win many games if Henderson is not healthy, in the dog house, or just for whatever reason not on the floor for at least half the game.  He played 11 minutes (but most of that was garbage time at the end when the game was already out of hand).  He attempted one shot (albeit a bad one) and was yanked permanently from the game.  

The reality is, our bigs just aren't that good - they are average interior players.  Combine that with the fact that Kilicli and Rutledge are of no thread whatsoever to hit an outside shot.  If those are the guys we have on the floor with a duo combination of Browne, Jabarie, and Staten, that means we are playing 4 guys at once who cannot shoot the ball with Harris.  When Harris comes out of the game to get a rest, we end up having zero players on the floor together who can shoot.  Our interior game isn't good enough to overcome the fact that teams basically don't need to defend anyone on the perimeter except Harris.

Having 2 shooters on the floor together for us changes the whole dynamic of our offense.  Anything optimistic that I've said about this team assumes Henderson is out on the floor seeing quality PT for us.  With him and Harris out there together, it spreads the defense, and gives us better opportunities to take higher percentage shots in the paint.  Maybe Huggs felt that with Heslip being such a good shooter, we couldn't afford to have the 2 freshmen on the floor together?  Not sure.  I listened to the first part of the game on the radio so I didn't actually see Henderson in action.  Did he do anything else wrong besides that bad shot?  Also not sure why Miles didn't get into the game - is he hurt?  We could have used him with all the foul trouble. 

In any event, the Purdue debacle repeated itself in the second half...  All things considered - I actually thought we played a solid first half.  Yes - there were a lot of turnovers but a good chunk of those calls weren't a case of WVU not taking care of the basketball (there were a good number of offensive foul calls, a shot clock violation, a 3 second call, etc.) 

I will stick by my position that this team is very capable of beating some good teams with the right personnel on the floor. 

We all know that Deniz cannot make or even attempt a shot outside of 10 feet.  Then why is he posted on the perimeter so often?  All that does is allow his man to camp in the paint and eliminate any possibility of a cutter to the rim.  The other 3 big men can hit a 15-footer if they are WIDE open and have enough time to get the shot off, which is maybe once a game.  So you have 3 guards/swingmen running their asses off trying to get a clean path to the rim, which they never get, because there is always a big man in the lane.  This is further complicated by the fact that I have seen both Staten and Browne pass up many open shots, both at the 3-point line and even inside the 3-line, especially early in the shot clock.  Don't know if they were instructed by the coaches not to take those shots early in the clock.  If your guards are unwilling to take and make those shots, it makes defending our team laughingly simple.  All you have is either a post-up with Deniz or Murray, an ocassional dribble-drive by Staten or a long 3 from Harris.

I was thinking maybe we should just go with the high screen roll like Baylor uses, but you know what?  It wouldn't work.  The defense would know our guards won't take pullup jumpers, so they just have to back off and not worry about defending the J.

My original point is that this year's team was supposed to close the gap with other teams in athleticisim.... and, it hasn't happened.  Teams are still quicker, and playing more above the rim... than this year's team.

Agree completely.  The idea was that Staten and Murray were supposed to provide this.  For all you Truck haters out there - I'd take Truck and KJ any day of the week over those two.  Right about now - we sure could use a PG who can actually shoot the ball (for all the bad shots Truck took, in 4 years as a Mountaineer he never shot below 30% from 3 pt range - neither Jabarie, Staten nor Browne is shooting even 25% from downtown this season).  All 3 are more athletic than Truck was, but by his senior year, Truck had improved his defense to a serviceable level.  So lets see - a comparable defensive PG who led the country in free throw attempts, shot over 30% from 3, and scored 17 ppg for us?  Isn't this the guy everyone complained about pretty much all last season?  I'd rather have Truck at the point right now than any of our "more athletic" options...

I think the common theme is that athleticism doesn't always make for good college basketball players.  You need at least 1 or 2talented athletic guys to have a championship level team, but you also need smart, finesse, Belein style players (think combination of guys on our final 4 team).  What's encouraging about this year's team is that for the first time since Huggs first recruiting class, we have some guys in Terry, Eron and Noreen who resemble Belein style players.  That's a start. Those are the kind of guys we need to complement the top level bigs we have coming in next year.  We need to do a better job recruiting for the PG position... 

We all know that Deniz cannot make or even attempt a shot outside of 10 feet.  Then why is he posted on the perimeter so often?  All that does is allow his man to camp in the paint and eliminate any possibility of a cutter to the rim. 

Yes - this drives me crazy.

The other 3 big men can hit a 15-footer if they are WIDE open and have enough time to get the shot off, which is maybe once a game.  So you have 3 guards/swingmen running their asses off trying to get a clean path to the rim, which they never get, because there is always a big man in the lane. 

Right - actually, if you pay close attention to the combos, the offense actually flows quite nicely when Murray and Noreen play together.  These guys can even nail shots from downtown.  The problem is that one or both of them (like Wednesday) are often in foul trouble so this combination is not possible for long stretches.   

This is further complicated by the fact that I have seen both Staten and Browne pass up many open shots, both at the 3-point line and even inside the 3-line, especially early in the shot clock.  Don't know if they were instructed by the coaches not to take those shots early in the clock.  If your guards are unwilling to take and make those shots, it makes defending our team laughingly simple. 

I'm sure he told them not to shoot, and sadly, it has probably helped our offense, more than it hurt overall.  In exchange for passing up those opportunities over the past few games, at least we no longer have guys who shoot bricks 0% and 20% from 3 chucking up shots.  It was working pretty nicely when both Terry and Eron were playing together with only one of these guys on the floor at a time.  It clearly cannot be our game plan though when Browne and Staten are on the floor together (with Kilicli) - to your point.   

Henderson needed to get more minutes in this game, and in every game.  That's the bottom line.  He will take some bad shots - so will Harris.  They are freshmen - and even if not, it happens.  But at least these kids are shooters.  The other guards on our team are not and never were.  Both of our freshmen have more 3s individually this season than Staten and Browne have combined over their two season careers.  Jabarie's stats from last season look a little better on paper, but they're really not...  He hit most of his 3 pointers early on last year against weaker mid-major competition.  Harris and Henderson are playing more and shooting at higher percentages as the season goes on (with the exception of the games Terry played hurt).      




 

I remember earlier in the season when Huggins said he had given up on his big men - they had their chance and couldn't do it.  He intimated he would go with a 4-guard lineup.  We have not seen that once since then.  I don't think we need two bigs in the game at all times. These guys minutes should be reduced and guys like Henderson and Miles should have theri minutes increased.  Sure go part of the game with two bigs, but then go with what works. Getting Kilicli and Noreen off the floor automatically gives you a more athletic team.

IMO, there are too many factors affecting this year's team for any of us to figure it out.  Huggy has tried a bunch of differenct combo's, and only he knows why he has had to shuffle the line-up this deep into the season... especially when the injury bug hasn't really been the issue... exception... Henderson.

This year's team is worse than last year's team in regard to our guards being able to defend well.  How many teams have seen their guards have record nights against WVU?  Huggy talked about it this week... saying something like... 'we are really good at making our opponents look good.'  Hell... a reserve guard from Okie St went off on them recently.  Heslip went off last year... it is a joke.

The starting line-up leaves one player who can make a shot consistently from beyond 15 ft.  When Murray is on the court, he can knock down the 3... which is huge.  Unfortunately, he has trouble staying out of foul trouble.  What a head case.

While Big 12 officiating is questionable, it has been consistent.  Our guys should have adjusted by now.  Don't move on a screen... seems like our guys should have gotten the message.

The problem with a small line-up is rebounding both offensively and defensively.

Not a very good team... it is what it is...

I would like to see Henderson and Harris play more together. Statistically, the games where Hinds, Browne and Staten combine for less than 15 shots have been most successful. Our backcourt defense is lousy no matter who is out there. I don't see how replacing one of these guys with Henderson for 15 extra minutes can make it much worse. Our defense is bad - but it's the offense that takes us out of games. We didn't play good defense in the first half vs Baylor but we were still in the game because we shot at a high percentage. Smurph - I agree with you that we don't necessarily need 2 bigs out there but the problem is that we don't really add much with having a second PG out there instead in addition to both Henderson and Harris. It's not like Miles has shown he can bring much offense to the table either. If given the choice and foul trouble is not an option we're probably best off with Kilicli and Murray on the floor with Henderson, Harris and whichever PG is having the best day. That gives us the best possible combination of guys who score at a high percentage. The PG stats are very deceiving. Their shooting percentages are boosted by easy lay ups off of steals against crappy teams from early in the year. Those shots aren't available against B12 foes. The only reason to have 2 PGs on the floor together now IMO is if we can't break full court press. Harris played the point in high school. This should not be an issue.

Since WVU's defense is average, it places even more pressure on the offense.  This year's team is giving up almost 66 points a game.  Last year's defense gave up more points, but it offense scored better.

It is a vicious circle. 

But, I am with you.  I don't understand why Henderson doesn't get more minutes.  I would like to see him and Harris on the court together, and let Browne, Hinds and Staten share PG duties the rest of the way.  They could give Hinds and Browne time at the 2 spot to rest either Harris or Henderson.  But, the scoring threat would improve.

If Huggs is going to keep going zone, how can it hurt to have the freshmen in there?