Discussion on the FSM- keep it clean/respectful

R2k,

Sorry about all the bold, I didn't realize I left it on after quoting you... shoulda checked!

why do you believe in the creationist theory, or intelligent design as it is also known? do you feel loyal to god? that you owe him for what you perceive to be a miracle, a helping hand? im not mocking you, im trying to understand your point of view.

I'd have to say that it's enough for me.  I have the answers I need so I don't research other stuff.  I believe there is so much we don't know, and the universe itself is different now than it was at creation... you talk about God creating things with the appearance of age.  Maybe He did, I don't know.  Maybe the universe is billions of years old, but the earth itself was only recently re-created as I mentioned in an earlier post.  Because I don't know enough detail about the science itself, I honestly can't talk about radiologic halos and things like that.  But I do know this:

"Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us,the apostles of the Lord and Savior, knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water." (2 Peter 3:1-6)

 I was always struck by the fact that Peter wrote people would deny that God created the world and that they would deny the flood of Noah.  And he didn't say it was happening then, he said it would happen in the last days.  I don't know if these are the last days, but it does describe modern science!

No, I don't feel any sense of loyalty to God for believing in creation - I'm not doing Him any favors... I show my gratitude in daily life, hopefully, when I do the things I know are pleasing to Him.  It really is a Parent/Child relationship - He's my dad, and I want to do right by Him... when I don't I may get grounded, or even paddled, but after my butt stops burning I know He loves me and is just watching out for me. 

How about you?  When they find Noah's Ark one day, and the dating of the wood goes back about 5000 years, and the construction of the boat matches the Biblical description - will you believe it then?  Or will you think the Bible story was written because somebody found that boat on the mountain 3500 years ago and tried to figure out how it got there?

How about you?  When they find Noah's Ark one day, and the dating of the wood goes back about 5000 years, and the construction of the boat matches the Biblical description - will you believe it then?  Or will you think the Bible story was written because somebody found that boat on the mountain 3500 years ago and tried to figure out how it got there?

Ill address the rest of the post later, i need to hit the sack here. but i will address this quickly.

the ark would not suffice, would they would need to do is this, somehow find a way to house thousands of species, regulate and maintain various climates, while only keeping a hand full of these species ( lets say two of each) from killing their natural prey , all that technology being housed in an ark that fits the description of the arks dimension and radiometric dating can verify the age. that if it all checks out, it would be veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy tough to refute...im sure im missing something but that would be interesting to say the very least.

night ladies and gentleman. i look forward to reading the responses tomorrow.

2k

"Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us,the apostles of the Lord and Savior, knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water." (2 Peter 3:1-6)

To me, that sounds like a great line to add to any religious belief system as an "insurance policy" of sorts.

It provides believers with a built-in retort.....that their own holy book predicted that people would mock their belief in invisible, undetectable sky beings that create elaborate systems requiring their own offspring to die to atone for the crimes of others...?

I was always struck by the fact that Peter wrote people would deny that God created the world and that they would deny the flood of Noah.  And he didn't say it was happening then, he said it would happen in the last days.

Again, these are not earth-shattering revelations made by Peter.  It does not take a whole lot of imagination to think that people would one day doubt a global flood that left no geologic footprint, or any evidence of its passing whatsoever.

You are attributing Godly powers of prophecy on poor old Peter for what amounts to basically predicting that one day the sun would rise and set in the same day.

During Biblical times, there was a plethora of competing religions, all seeking to disprove the others, all of them trying to prove whose god is the maxi-baddest of them all.  All one had to do to start questioning Noah's story was to look around them and ask: "If we are experiencing a global flood, why am I not surrounded by water?"

Again, these are not earth-shattering revelations made by Peter.  It does not take a whole lot of imagination to think that people would one day doubt a global flood that left no geologic footprint, or any evidence of its passing whatsoever.

You are attributing Godly powers of prophecy on poor old Peter for what amounts to basically predicting that one day the sun would rise and set in the same day.

So Peter didn't believe what he was saying? 

During Biblical times, there was a plethora of competing religions, all seeking to disprove the others, all of them trying to prove whose god is the maxi-baddest of them all. 

And they still are to a great degree.  Human nature does not change - only technology does.