The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

Well I never minded Guthrie and at times he was a savior for the bullpen at times, but his time had probably come with the influx of similar quality pitchers, and the young pitchers who are expected to improve. I really don't think the money was the big factor so much as it was the most we would get for him anyway, and he is not going to be around at 34 or 35 when the team turns the corner in 2013/2014. Hammel is a ground ball pitcher which should translate better in Baltimore than Guthrie who gave up a lot of HR's. And the relief pitcher is a definite upgrade to an already improved bullpen. And yes for less money. So we got younger and cheaper and if you consider the Coors Field affect he might be just as effective. Whoever said it is bad because we arent good enough defensively to take advantage of a ground ball pitcher misses the big picture. We may not be good enough to take advantage of every ground ball hit to 3b, but I doubt any of them go for inside the park HR's, so an error behnd this guy, is much bette than a HR given up by a fly ball pitcher like Guthrie. I am talking myself into liking this trade better and better all the time. LOL

I know Devil is especially happy, but unfortunately somebody else will just fall into the non support spot in the rotation ahnd become the new object of his ire. It happens evey year where somone gets support and the other one doesn't. So this year it is probably Chen, and then everyone will say he was a bust and a AAA pitcher because he loses 15 games with a 3.8 ERA. Whoever is at the top of our rotation is going to get less support, because those guys are usually pitching against one of the other teams best pitchers.

With Tillman, Matusz, Arrieta, Britton I thought Baltimore's rotation would be loaded, but the problem is none of the prospects have amounted to much.  Arrieta still has a fighting chance!

Hmm, need some of that Washington owner's wealth :)

Well, let's face it.  In the grand scheme of things, Jeremy Guthrie wasn't going to lead this team back into contention.  So they get a similar pitcher who is younger and servicable bullpen help in a market that seemed to have zero interest in Guthrie whatsoever.  I find this quite interesting because I live in the West and keep up with the Rox.  I don't know what the hell they're thinking bringing Guthrie to Coors Field.  This is a flyball, curveball pitcher; it's not the home runs -- it's the cavernous gaps between the outfielders (and between the outfielders and the infielders) that are just going to kill him at home. 

Guthrie gave 55 doubles last year -- more than any other pitchers in the American League.  Guthrie is going to get killed by extra base hits at Coors Field.  That means more baserunners under pressure and more deep counts...  You can forget about getting 200 innings out of him.  I predict Guthrie in Colorado is going to be a disaster.  I almost feel sorry for the guy.  You'd think after their experience with Mike Hampton the Rockies would've figured out what kind of pitchers aren't going to be successful in their own ballpark.  Let me give them a hint: Fly balls = bad.

lol Orioles and Rockies are my two favorite teams, watch them both alot, thi is such an upgrade for rockies, dont forget Guthrie will be pitching in parks like San Fran, LA and SD, not to mention guthrie is going to be so friggen hungry and ready to contend ... i like ham sauce and linny but this was a great move for rocks, my dad whose a huge oriole fan for 50 years loved guthrie and is happy he has a chance to win somewhere, but hes still asking himself, why havent his Os done anything to get better this season? is duquette just throwing in the white flag this year???

GO ROCKS GO Os

I certainly dont know this for certain. But it seems to me the Orioles arent given up as much as they are giving other players an opportunity to prove they belong here. A lot of these players are really in a do or die crossroad of their career. Chris Davis was a top prospect for years with the Rangers but kept getting passed over. This is it for him. He better show that he belongs here and he is gonna get his opportunity.

Nolan Reimold falls into a similar category, just due to his age. He needs to make the most of his opportunity and doesnt have to worry about a player like Luke Scott blocking him. Similarly Davis doesnt have to worry about an over the hill player like Derrek Lee blocking him.

Matt Antonelli and Ryan Flaherty have a golden opportunity to seeze the day that Brian Roberts is probably gonna forfeit his spot. Maybe even Ryan Adams can make the most of his opportunity.

Thats just on the offensive side of the ball.

From a pitching standpoint, again its all about opportunity. They dipped into international waters. That can go either way. The same with the young pitching. But for a lot of these guys it could be do or go to the minors. They may have to be there regardless and thats not a entirely bad thing.

IMO the Orioles are still gonna try to dump Kevin Gregg, I believe that will intensify since they added Lindstrom. Much like the Davis and Reimold case, Gregg wont be blocking Jim Johnson and his opportunity to close. The Os can finally figure out once and for all what JJ can do. Having Pedro Strop in the pen and some of the other power arms there is a lot to like.

Unfortunately for the Orioles they are gonna look like the AAA team they appear to be when they go up against Boston, New York, Tampa Bay and Toronto. Those 72 games they can just about chalk up 50 losses to. The talent isnt even compareable. So for the other 90 games the Os play they are gonna have to shoot for 61 wins to break 500. I dont see it, not with this group. They more than likely will be right where they where last year. The big difference is they can properly evaluate their own and move on from there.

May not be the direction any of us want. But at least its finally a direction, instead of trotting out over the hill players that cant do anything but take up a roster spot.

It's true that those are big ballparks, and Guthire probably did a little dance when he realized he doesn't have to pitch half his freaking starts against Boston and New York.  I just think fly ball pitchers who rely on breaking balls should stay away from Coors Field. 

As for the O's...  It's time to admit that the "rebuild" that's been going on for the last four or five seasons is a failure.  Duquette's only goal is to make the team midly less awful while rebuilding the farm system.  I approve of that strategy.  At least he's brought in some guys who will be interesting to watch.  What other choice does he have?  Even mid-tier free agents won't set foot in Baltimore.  I mean, did any of you guys REALLY think Prince Fielder was going to be an Oriole?  Sure, maybe a few years from now when he's broken down and worth about 15 HRs and 65 RBIs.  Otherwise, forget it.

If Duquette can snag a couple quasi-gems from overseas and bring in some guys with good work ethic, I'll consider this offseason a success.  This "interest" in Manny Ramirez bothers me though.  I smell that one coming from the boss.  "I want that broken down old man in my ballpark.  The Angelos hath spoken."

By the way congrats to everyone on this winter thread. over 44000 reads? Pretty impressive.

This thread as far as i can see is second only to the Red Sox who have been keeping a thread going since i think 2008. It has over 1.1 Million views. Other than that I haven't seen any MLB team page threads with even 10k views and the Rays have 4 total thread on their entire page. That seems pretty unbeleivable for a team that has been good. They don't deserve a team down there.

When this thread started i was childless now i got a one month old YIKES LOL

Congratulations Pops!

Good to know about the thread. At least we can rank high in something, right?

I'm sure if the Os can get something for Gregg, they'll try to trade him. But I don't think they'll get anything. It makes sense to let him play till July and see if he can't improve his value.

You have to think there is still a trade left as the signings might be just about done.  There are more bodies than spots especially on the mound but way more holes than actual skilled players able to fill them.

I really hope that the Manny Ramirez rumor is overblown and that we are just paying lip service and that we are not interested in a guy about to turn 40 who is linked to the steroids era we are trying to put behind us, who is a flake, who may or may not even hit at all, and who doesn't even really have another team interested in him.  And he wouldn't even be able to play until 1/3 of the way through the season.  If we are THAT desperate and actually follow through on it, perhaps 66-96 is too sunny an estimate and we ought to think more like 61-101.

Manny Ramirez would be the dumbest move in a long time (with plenty of dumb moves in comparison).  When the Cowboys signed Terrell Owens, my uncle (who had been a Cowboys fan pretty much since their inception) switched favorites.  That has crossed my mind with Manny and the Orioles...and that's AFTER the 1988 Eddie Murray trade.

I really don't understand the Ramirez angst. As you said even if he signs he won't even be around until Memorial day. Odds are he starts somewhere else to get his timing down if he has any left. Id he stinks then they just don't bring him up and cut him. If he is fresh from not playing and can still hit then why not? He will make the veteran minimum. he will get tested out the wazoo and if he relapses then he is gone. No reflection on us if he does, as he was already a druggy before. And yes last I checked we ARE that deperate. It is a 0 risk, low odds chance of being anything, possible high reward for half a season. Especially if we make a bunch of trade deadline sales and just need bodies to finsh out the season.

I am not rooting for him to come here, but honestly I don't look at it much different than the rest of the low talent chances we have taken this off season. If he cost more than a few hundred thousand then I don't do it, but minimum money, pro rated for 2/3 of a season, Eh?

Now I did read something that would make me feel a little better about Manny Ramirez and that was that the kicker in his deal could be signing him to a minor league contract, if he really wants to play that bad. He has already made his money, his baggage is gonna shy more than 3/4 of the league away and if he proved after his suspension that he could still hit, it would be a good gamble and perhaps even a decent trading chip.

With all that being stated however, they should stay the hell away from this clown.

On another note as predicted MLBTR is confirming that the Yankees are still trying to shop A.J. Burnett and not suprising they list the Orioles as a potential suitor, along with the A's, Pirates and White Sox. Now that could be speculation as to where they would be looking to move him to. But I do believe that the Os would have interest in him, the Yanks would have to eat a considerable portion of the contract but they are liable to do that any ways. The Os have some pitching that has nowhere to go and the Yanks could be looking for bullpen help in return which the Os seem to have a plethora of.

I dont for one second think the Os are done making moves.