2009 Steelers Draft and Mel Kiper Sucks Thread

Along with a few other schools today - Arkansas has its pro day - looking forward to the numbers and report on Jerry Franklin ILB.  A day 3 kid that may be able to help - we'll see.

enjoy,

bb

bb,

what do you think of that 3rd round pick by Walter Football, I think it goes bloats. Bernard Pierce is a good back, but not in round 3. You can find a back in any round. Arian Foster just inked a HUGE 5 year deal, a former 7th rounder. I like Franklin as help, not sure Sly has what it takes to play zone, good core ST guy though. The guy I really like and I hope pneumonia helped us.... is Bobby Wagner. Rumor by Pat Kirwon has it that NE interested in Wallace and giving up 31.. that would suck dog crap, however if we took the 24 and 31 and got DeCastro, I could live with it.

Did you see my post of OL we had "locked" into our mocks, then pool, they climb the boards,, pretty annoying huh?

nyb

what do you think of that 3rd round pick by Walter Football, I think it goes bloats

I can't speak for bb, but I hate the pick. I don't even think Pierce is a 3rd-round back, and I don't think it's a draftable need for us anyway.

The guy I really like and I hope pneumonia helped us.... is Bobby Wagner.

I like him too, but I think we could also look at Mychal Kendricks out of California with promise. He has anchored and made plays both inside and outside in the Golden Bears' 3-4. His one knock on him is his height, but he's only an inch shorter than Wagner.

Rumor by Pat Kirwon has it that NE interested in Wallace and giving up 31.. that would suck dog crap, however if we took the 24 and 31 and got DeCastro, I could live with it.

Should this happen I like the Cardinals as a trade partner. Whiz has traded with us in the past. That said, DeCastro might be the ONLY player I'd trade up for, with the possible exception of Dontari Poe if no other team claims him by that point. There are several teams who could pick either player ahead of the Cardinals.

NY and Demo,

DeCast-Roe (as in Jetson's) is the the best interior linemen in the draft - by a big margin.. If we could move up to get him I'm for it.  I like Wallace - but not at over 4 million...  Even if we didn't get DeCast-Roe - still like getting the pick - Hightower and Cox? or some other combo sounds great to me..

Re - Bernard Pierce RB - I like him - not in the 3rd round - IF we are looking at RB no earlier than round 5...  Pierce was milage on him and I also question his durability..  I do like some of the later round backs.. Lennon Creer Rb Lous Tech being one of them...  3rd round in Brandon Brooks territory..

My gut right now - is thinking Hightower is the pick at #24.. 

enjoy,

bb

Bernard-pierce iis a bigger back coming off a concussion, I just don't get that logic. Pittsburgh already has Clay, Dwyer Redman. They need a complimentary back with speed and Elusiveness.

I agree with most however on David DeCastro, no way the Cowboys pass on him.

There's been some talk of the Cowboys going after Carl Nicks. There are some other notable free agents too (Evan Mathis, Chad Rinehart, Ben Grubbs, Jake Scott). I still doubt DeCastro falls to 24 but what if he falls to the Titans at 20? They have a lot more needs and may consider moving back to 24 if the price is right.

An interesting exercise ...

What Players Would You Bet Your House Go Before the Steelers Pick at 24

Andrew Luck
RGIII
Matt Kalil
Morris Claiborne
Trent Richardson
Michael Brockers
David DeCastro
Riley Reiff
Quinton Coples
Melvin Ingram
Michael Floyd
Luke Kuechly
Dre Kirkpatrick
Jonathan Martin
Ryan Tannehill
Courtney Upshaw
Dontari Poe

That's my list - about 17 players. So who's the next best 7 players ...?

Cordy Glenn
Kendall Wright
Fletcher Cox
Nick Perry
Whitney Mercilus
Donta Hightower
Devon Still

^^^ The only two I don't like on that list are Devon Still (motor) and Whitney Mercilus (tweener).

There is going to be a really good football player at 24!

Almost forgot ...

Shea McClellin - I think he's moved well into the 2nd round. There's some talk of him moving to the inside.

That is good list of Players.  I am not crazy about Brockers but he will be long gone.  Don't ask me why I just think he is going to be a bust. Heard him on an interview on Sirius and did not like his football IQ.

^^^ The only two I don't like on that list are Devon Still (motor) and Whitney Mercilus (tweener).

I'll second that one Beach, I don't like Either one as well.

That is good list of Players.  I am not crazy about Brockers but he will be long gone.  Don't ask me why I just think he is going to be a bust. Heard him on an interview on Sirius and did not like his football IQ

Jake, The thing is this, Brockers is like Cam Newton, boom or bust. ONe year at a high level and that level wasn't even as good as Fletcher Cox who did not have a lot of help around him. THe only thing slower than Brocker's 40, is his brain. Fletcher Cox is 6-4, 298 and ran a 4.79. To put that into perspective the all world OLB/DE Melvin Ingram also ran 4.79. Imagine a 5 technique that can run down ball carriers or shadow the TE in a zone blitz. I had FLetcher Cox in my mocks several times, now it looks like he locked into the top 20,



 

Cordy Glenn
Kendall Wright
Fletcher Cox
Nick Perry
Whitney Mercilus
Donta Hightower
Devon Still

^^^ The only two I don't like on that list are Devon Still (motor) and Whitney Mercilus (tweener).

There is going to be a really good football player at 24!
----------------------------

Where is Justin Blackmon on your list?  that would make 18 that wont be there when we go at #24..

Agreed - Still and Mercilus  - no thanks..  same for J.Worthy from  MIch State...

Kendall Wright is a NO for me that leaves....

Cordy Glenn
Fletcher Cox
Nick Perry
Donta Hightower

As much as ManO likes Cox..  I just dont see us taking a 5 technique in the first round...   that leaves...

Cordy Glenn
Nick Perry
Donta Hightower

They had 3 players on their 1st round list a few years ago - with 3 picks to go.. All three were picked and the Steelers panic and took Huey Richardson..  so to add to Glenn, Perry and Hightower...

Cordy Glenn
Nick Perry
Donta Hightower
Mark Barron
Zach Brown
Stephen Hill


how about the CB from south carolina..  Stephon Gilmore?

anyone else to add?

enjoy,

bb

bb,

I wonder what grade they give Kelechi Osemele? NOt a first rounder on most boards, but we are looking at Draft sites, not actual war rooms.  Walter Football has us taking Hightower and Osemele, it's like he reads our minds. 

I like your thinking here is my $0.02

Cordy Glenn
Nick Perry
Donta Hightower
Zach Brown
Stephen Hill

Mark Barron is coming off an injury and is the best safety in weak class no thanks.   YOu can put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig.

Here is food for thought, Dwayne Allen is the 3rd rated TE in Mayocks board, what if he is there at 56. Does DJ Johnson fit what Haley wants, remember that DROP he had part of the reason  we were bounced out by Teblow. And now Saunders has a 4 game suspension, just throwing that out there.  And what IF Hoodie snags Wallace, would they look at Coby Fleener at 31? I am not convinced they do that after tagging Welkrt.  I am leaning towards the Jets, especially if they sign Peyton Manning. Holmes and Wallace with Manning throwing to them, their goal is to beat N.E. and put up more points. Not sure what their cap is like.  However with pick 16, 24 that puts DeCastro in the mix.


ny

I wonder what grade they give Kelechi Osemele? NOt a first rounder on most boards, but we are looking at Draft sites, not actual war rooms.  Walter Football has us taking Hightower and Osemele, it's like he reads our minds. 
---------------

NY,
I like Walter's first 2 rounds for us.. But Pierce in round 3...  Hicks and Round 4 and Brandon Lindsey in the 5th?  Horrible..  Hicks is very very raw - 5th round at the earliest...  Pierce - again I like him - but not in the 3rd round.. and I really dont want to see a RB till the round 6 or 7...  and Lindsey stinks... another "Humpel" like pick...

enjoy,

bb

BB,

Yep, Hicks is raw may even go undrafted. Guys with Potential need time to develop, a 4th round pick should be a core ST guy right off the bat and be fighting for a starting job in a few years. Hicks with the DL depth would go right to the PS and might not even clear waivers.

NY

I think osemele comes of at around 40, he is too good to be at the end of the second and not good enough to be a solid first rounder.

Someone may reach though.

As for barron, kid can play, just because he is the best of a weak class doesnt mean that the gap between him and everyone else is not vast, i would not be deflated if the pick was barron.

As for Cox- i laughed bb. But i think you are right, that would be 3 5 techs in as many years i think, maybe 4 years.

Im with you all on reyes and kendel, i dont really think they are that good. Wait until the later rounds and take a sanu who may slide, kid has safe hands and is born to play in the north.

As for Stephen Hill, i think he will actually be picked before PIT can. He is too damn fast, has a wonderful frame and his hands are not bad at all, his routes suck but hey...who's doesnt? if he falls and other guys are off the board i think he could let the Steelers tell wallace to go bye bye, i like brown and sanders as is.

2k

Does anyone know of Aiken Hicks Walter keeps giving the Steelers in the 4th? NT out of Canada makes me think 4th is too early without seeing any tape.

Never mind, nyb covered it.

2K,

I repectively disagree with you on Mark Barron. My take is simply his stock is ELEVATED only because the Safety Class is weak. Is he  better than guys rated in his range: Perry, Glenn, Hightower. A team desperate for safety help will slightly reach, that is why he is a top 25 player. If you put him in the same class from 2010, he is a mid 40 pick.  THe same can be said about any position, Carolina reached for Sam Baker because the OT pool thinned out.

anyone watching Path to the Draft, holy crap it's a soap opera, specifically Peyton Place.   and Charley Casserly is out of his gourd, he is turning into a crotchety DIck Vitale...

NY

And I can disagree some more, the KEY to the draft is not necessarily the #2 pick, everyone is talking about. If I am Jeff Fisher I got my eyes on Matt Kalil. Sure Justin Blackmon is good, but there is question marks if you take him at #4. Look at last years #4 AJ Green, is Blackmon as good, I don't believe so. So the Vikings at 3 are the key. THey need Matt Kalil and the Rams know this, sure you get the #4 pick, and Kalil is gone to the  Vikings. The Viking sit back and if Kalil goes at 2, then Washington is on the horn to move ahead of Cleveland. And you could end up with the #6 pick, you don't need a QB, and you would probably get their 1st rounder next year.

I dont doubt that his stock is elevated as he is a more attractive prospect due to him being the only top tier safety availble and because of that he may go slightly higher than perhaps his skill warrants IN RELATION to other prospects BUT that is not to say he is bad. the 2010 class is harsh imo, it was stacked, i would wager most of these fringe first rounders would not have broken in to the top tier, hell lets put it like this, i liked Sean Lee better than any other line backer i have seen with the exception of crack addict number 2, and he went in the second.

in 2010 you had thomas and berry, both great players but both FS not SS, even tj ward while good, didnt have the same appeal to me as Barron does, i would have ranked him higher than ward and given him a fringe first round grade, but probably conceeded to your point that he gets picked in the second, but thats not because the safety class was god like but it was because the draft itself was stacked.

Rahim Moore was the first safety off the board in 2011 i think in the second, and even he was an FS NOT an SS, the fact of the matter is, there are very few safeties that have come out in the last few years with the ability that mark posses to play the run, to play around the box AND drop back and cover at an above average level.

just my two cents, i see your point but i feel the comparison is unfair, both the previous drafts were heavily stacked overall or at a specific position, 2011 being stacked on the D line, pass rushers.

2k

In reply to Barron,

I watched quite a bit of Alabama's games this past year and Barron is a good Safety but very unspectacular. Nothing he did stood out and made think this is a must have player. Remember, he benefited from a very good front 7 and both CB's were also good, Kirkpatrick is going to be a top 20 pick. So early 2nd round is about right for this guy, IMO.

Kirkpatrick is going to be a top 20 pick. ----------------

Do teams that draft him have to supply the Mary Jane or is that on his nickel?

just asking....

enjoy,

bb

RE: Do teams that draft him have to supply the Mary Jane or is that on his nickel?

just asking.

Dont think he will go within the first 20 picks ?

In reply to Barron,

I watched quite a bit of Alabama's games this past year and Barron is a good Safety but very unspectacular. Nothing he did stood out and made think this is a must have player. Remember, he benefited from a very good front 7 and both CB's were also good, Kirkpatrick is going to be a top 20 pick. So early 2nd round is about right for this guy, IMO.

rarebreed,

This is what I am trying to beat into everyone who will listen. He is a good player, not elite. You take elite safeties in round one, not guys that may start and develop into Ryan Clark. You are looking for Eric Berry and Earl Thomas. And I don't think he is much better than Nate Allen or TJ Ward, not from what I saw, no explosion.  I feel he is player who should be rated int the 50's. He definelty benefited from playing on the best defense in the NCAA, I would look at him at 56 but if Vinny Curry or Bobby Wagner are still available, I go that route. Mark Barron is a safe pick, but Tomlin wants quick twitch guys, Barron ain't got it.

nyb

Where is Justin Blackmon on your list?

Good catch. Not sure how I missed him.

As much as ManO likes Cox..  I just dont see us taking a 5 technique in the first round...   that leaves...

Cordy Glenn
Nick Perry
Donta Hightower

I guess that's pretty much where we're at on this exercise. If those three are gone I prefer a trade to early 2nd and take Osemele. No one has two 2nd's other than NE so the compensation would have to be in the extra 3rd and 4th range. I could live with that.

I'm not sure what all the "experts" are saying in regards to the depth of the 2012 draft but there are going to be some really good football players in the 3rd round. How would you like to get a combination of Silatoua and Pead in the 3rd?

Hey guys, George Iloka I've sen him listed as both a FS and SS depending on the site you're referencing, so I can write a proper review what position does he fall under? Although I have him being a big faller any way, didn't like what I saw at the combine from the kid. Once a possible late first to late 2nd pick, I now see him going mid to late 4th at best.

I'm not sure what all the "experts" are saying in regards to the depth of the 2012 draft but there are going to be some really good football players in the 3rd round. How would you like to get a combination of Silatoua and Pead in the 3rd?
-------------------

I'd take that in a new york minute...  There are certain positions that do have a lot of depth..  Interior Offensive linemen being one of them - lucky for us..  If they dont go say a Cordy Glenn in round one - there are plenty of other high quality players inside - Zeitler, Silatoua, Osemele, and a little later - Brooks, Blake, Bergstrom to name a few - DL is also deep...

On the other end - LT spot is weak after the first 3-4 players..  and NT - only a few players...

by the way - Steeler Depot has na article up that K.C. himself attended the Alabama pro day yesterday....  hmmmmm

enjoy,

bb

Like Charlie Campbell's mock on Walter's site


Hightower

Ta'amu

Bergstrom

Irvin


He lost me with Bruce Irvin though. Huge red flags           

SB,

Agree - first 3 are solid - but Brandon Brooks still on the board at our 3rd round pick...  Bergstrom is older and has had knee surgery...  I do think he will be a good OG in the NFL though... maybe a better value in  round 4...  Irvin?  no thanks

enjoy,

bb

What are the red flags with Bruce?  Yes he had some issues and made mistakes, but that was 10 yrs. ago. This guy has it together now and has incredible athleticism.  He would be a project.  He would have to be taught pass coverage, but he is a pass-rusher extraordinaire and could play special teams.  Good pickup in the 4th/5th round.