The Pac-12 Thread....

Still not happy with the pass defense overall. Either cover two sucks or we don't know how to play it. I think the problem is with the linebackers dropping back but leaving the flats unprotected. Why drop back into empty space when some back is going out into the flat? Beats me. The really only bad play was that interception thrown on first down after they had just scored. A good pass would have been a completion, but the risk is too great for a thin defense. Kiffin should have known to try to get one or two first downs before going over the top. Use some clock and give the defense a blow. It might have cost us against a better team.

The cover 2 is going to give up yards. It is a defense that is designed to prevent big plays. Do you notice how deep one of the safeties always plays? I do think the cornerback position opposite Robey, and both other corners when Robey plays the nickleback, have been pretty bad so far. They (Torin Harris, Anthony Brown, Kevon Seymour and Brian Baucham) need to step up their game, or somebody will make USC pay with a loss.

From everything I have been reading, Kiffin is playing very conservatively, and taking what the defense gives up. USC is also playing a lot more players this year than last year, to increase the teams playable depth. There is a purpose behind what he is doing. Whether it will be successful is the question.

This weeks game against Stanford should give a much better idea what this team can do. Stanford has won 3 straight, and 4 of the last 5 against USC. If USC can go to Stanford and have a convincing win, I'll be very happy. A one point win will be ok, too. I am worried about Holmes injury and how bad it might be. He is the anchor of the line, and would be a huge loss.

4SoCalfan, that's the way I see it as well. Stanford will be a better indication of our defense.


Looks like the Ducks had some bad luck and have lost their all-American safety for the season...   I can 't recall his name right off..

4SoCalfan, that's the way I see it as well. Stanford will be a better indication of our defense.


Looks like the Ducks had some bad luck and have lost their all-American safety for the season...   I can 't recall his name right off..

It's John Boyett. It's a real tough loss for the Ducks. Boyett was one of the best players in the PAC 12 and a potential 1st team All-American. Boyett had a great Rose Bowl game last year, and he also played pretty well against USC.

From everything I have been reading, Kiffin is playing very conservatively, and taking what the defense gives up. USC is also playing a lot more players this year than last year, to increase the teams playable depth. There is a purpose behind what he is doing. Whether it will be successful is the question.

I agree. I think that Kiffin used these first 2 games as de-facto "live action" practices because the contact at practice has been kept fairly minimal and because of numbers, he may find himself having to rely on players that would have been redshirts under normal circumstances. He has to play them to get them up to speed as they will likely be needed, at least for small amounts of time, all season long. 

The good was the running game started to show with Silas Redd getting his first 100 yard game as a Trojan (I believe that he and McNeal combined for about 170 yards rushing). The defense looked pretty good in the first half and was able to pressure the Syracuse qb a bit.

The bad was that the offense sputtered at the start of the game and it looks like Barkley and the receivers still need to work on timing a bit. The defense gave up way too much in the second half, especially against the pass. I know. They need to reach a point where they perhaps surrender some yards, but not points.

OK week two, I ask the same question as week one. UCLA and AZ are now ranked, if ASU wins next week they will be as well. Assuming a Trojan win, then The Cards get bumbed out of the rankings leaving three south team and one north.


Therefore is the south better or is it another "one week" thing? 

Well, Stanford will be playing other North teams, Didn't look at skeds but some South teams other than USC will have to play Oregon and Stanford. Assuming we beat them, you can't have it both ways. We can't automatically be good and they bad. I think we need to see games through week 6 to have a good idea, and probably later before writing teams off or saying A is better than B. Teams have the right to improve, or deal with injuries as the year goes by. Never-the-less, the South was expected to have improved more than the North (although maybe Oregon St. has improved too), particularly with the moving on of Luck. It is possible that getting Stanford early is an advantage over getting them late, if Luck's replacement really only needs some time. That doesn't mean he is ever going to be Luck, but it may mean he isn't chop liver either (sorry if any of you really think chop liver is A OK).

Therefore is the south better or is it another "one week" thing? 

1. USC = Oregon
2. UCLA > Stanford
3. ASU > Washington
4. Arizona > Oregon St
5. Utah = Cal
6. CU < WSU

I'd say 1-5 they are as good or better. #6 is worse.

I reserve the right not to answer is the north or south better until they actually start playing.
Eirespal I see what you are trying to say but we will know more when those games happen. 

I reserve the right not to answer is the north or south better until they actually start playing.
Eirespal I see what you are trying to say but we will know more when those games happen

Oly has reserved judgment on something people. Mark this day in history.

I hear you. Conference play is just about the ONLY thing that is somewhat determined on the field. Since every other aspect of this game is opinion, speculation, innuendo, and hyperbole; it only makes sense that we compare the divisions as if it means something. And since my Utes sucked so bad, I now have to fall back on division dominance to hang my hat.

I mean these games give us som indication but it is only week 3.  how much do we know?
For all we know Utah state goes to a BCS bowl and this is Utah's only loss on the season.  doesnt look so bad then.  just sayin.
and non conference play and in conference play are vastly different.  When USC had Carroll as coach is was only Pac 10 teams that were beating them, they dominated nonconference. 
I think last year it was easier to say the North was better. gonig into the season I saw it the same way.  right now- I would lean to the south but still want to see more before i declare it. 

I believe the Pac 12 is the most competitive conference in Div 1A right now. Kind of sucks because we won't really be able to send anyone to the front. I think we will just eat our own this year unfortunately, and get shut out of the big game. Oregon still looks to be the best team in our conference. They have a chance, but I need to see more conference play to know for sure. Some up and comers are going to lay down some upsets I believe, and that is going to screw us all equally. Outside of Oregon, I don't see another team that I can confidently say could run the table.

kato must not of had his coffee before posting, not making any sense this morning.


Saturday's truth shall see you free.....  

This message has been removed by the administrator.

LakersUSCbam!, heard that,too. I was waiting for eirespal or Utah Ute to comment on it.


Back to Dr kato's point. Including saturday's game against the Cards, the Trojans have five ranked teams to play and possibly a sixth if ASU continues impressing. That so-called easy "south schedule" just toughened up a whole bunch.


Well I guess the plus side is the SOS is no longer an issue and a one loss Pac-12 team is not out of the NCG picture.....     

More bad news for the Ducks. Carson York, a senior starting O-lineman broke his kneecap and will have season-ending surgery. There's a couple other that are banged up as well.


USC lost it's starting center, no word on how long though. Anyone else get banged up this weekend?  

ASU lost backup LB Carlos Mendoza to a shoulder injury. You might be inclined to say "Backup? Big deal." but the kid had 2 INTs in the game before he went down. He started against Illinois due to starting LB Brandon Magee being out with concussions issues. Good news is Magee is back this week.


ASU has played two outstanding games so far. The NAU win takes on a little bit more meaning as they went on the road and beat FBS UNLV. Illinois had the nations #7 D last year and by all accounts, with 8 returning starters, this years version was supposed to be better.  


What I believe after week 2 is ASU can score on anyone. Our D is thin and hasn't really been tested yet. Illinois' O isn't "all that", especially without Scheelhaase.  


The Mizzou game will be a real test. ASU hasn't won a road OOC game since like 2006 I believe. Of course, none of those road games were against patsies. This week's isn't either.  

ASU Devil Mike, That Mizzu game is big, you guys pull that one off and I'd bet you'd jump both UCLA and AZ in the polls. Also, assuming USC beats Stanford, they'd drop below ASU as well. That would be a heck of a week!!


It seems RR has learned his lesson re PR with the locals and it's working.


GL Saturday...   

 Oregon starting WR Josh Huff says he expects to play this week but I say it is Tennessee Tech, sit him, get him healthy.

Best of luckto Jordan Wynn. Fourth shoulder surgery in as many years. It's a shame because although he has been fragile and frustrating to many Ute fans, he was a winner. Hope that he succeeds in whatever path he chooses from here.

As for the Utah QB situation, it's sticky. Jon Hays has the experience from last year, which is invaluable when facing the P12 defenses that are coming their way. However, they have a true freshman with a much higher ceiling. Wilson fits the mold of the other conference QB's with the 6'7" frame and loads of talent, but there are many questions regarding how well he can run an offense just yet. Do the Utes play it safe and go with a conservative game manager, or plan for the future by getting a Freshman his reps and taking his lumps?

Eirespal

I do feel bad for Wynn, saw him crying on the sideline when he got hurt and you could tell he was all in for Utah football. I dont think that is where Utah should be focused.  The defense is who let you guys down last week not the offense in my opinion. That is where i would focus on at this point. As for Offense i would just use both in a situational way like Tebow his freshman year. Then if one clearly emerges or gets hurt you have two guys with good experience and you can move forward.


As for LSU on here talking trash.... Well i agree nobody wants to face a handful of teams in the country on their best day, i dont agree that USC is by any means less than mediocre. People keep forgetting (especially LSU fans) that yes defense wins championships but you cant have just a Defense and expect to win a NC. It wasnt that long ago in January the LSU defense played good enough to win but the offense never made the trip to the game and was shut out by a team that put up offense AND Defense. My point being USC had a great offense with right now in week 2 decent defense. Ill take a bend but not break defense and top offense over a great defense and suspect offense. I want to see LSU's offense really look like everyone says they could be before ill give them that credit.

USC's Defense needs to do the same but dont forget not one person has said they were going to be a dominant shutdown defense this year. There was no raving about the USC defense so expectations were average which is where they are right now. So right now they are doing exactly what people expected them to do so far which is bend but not break

I would add that this offense is at least as good as the thunder and lightening days, right across the boards. The SEC was not able to stop that offense and I suspect they may slow this one but not stop it.


Then it comes down to who scores more? I don't know...



again, Saturday will go a long way to proving/disproving it.      

or plan for the future by getting a Freshman his reps and taking his lumps?

Its a shame to see a career ended by injury, but much too often its part of the game.  I know everyone wishes Mr Wynn all the best and theres no question he'll do well.  As far as the team goes, faced with the choices they have, has to plan to compete in the PAC 12 beyond 2012 and they'll need to pay the price that developing a new QB to do that. Now's a good time since they are still in transition from a mid-major conference.  Utah is a top program and they will respond appropriately. All that to say "go with the freshman with the talent". Bet that's already the coach's plan. No doubt Utah will develop into a PAC12 power.

They will play Hays. If he plays ok they will stick with him (at least for the next 4 games). If he really plays poorly, then they might decide to start getting ready for next year and throw the Freshman into the fire if nothing else but to get his feet wet. The big question is would they start him against USC. That would constitute a double edged sword event. Probably the Trojans would rather defend Hays (the thing you know) vs. a kid getting maybe his first start, because there becomes a big question of whether tendencies apply at all. But if you do and he rattles, then what might have been a hard-fought close game (maybe 30-70) USC favored, you could get a rout if too much pressure is now placed upon Utah's pretty good defense because of turnovers.

I do feel bad for Wynn, saw him crying on the sideline when he got hurt and you could tell he was all in for Utah football. I dont think that is where Utah should be focused.  The defense is who let you guys down last week not the offense in my opinion. That is where i would focus on at this point. As for Offense i would just use both in a situational way like Tebow his freshman year. Then if one clearly emerges or gets hurt you have two guys with good experience and you can move forward.

I feel bad for Wynn too. To go down with yet another shoulder injury and hear the few Utah fans in Logan cheer would be hard. I hope he realized they were cheering for Hays, who was coming in to take his first snap since ending last year on a 6-1 run with the Utes. It is not the way any  player should end a career.

As for the Defense, I wouldn't place any blame on them. They allowed 13 points in regulation to a team that was top 20 in offense last year. The Ute defense allowed 2 of 13 third down conversions. They did what they needed to in my opinion. I think the offense is the key to any victories this team will manage this year. They have to stay on the field and manage points somehow.

And as for the QB situation, the answer is bad: they will play both of them. Hays will start. Wilson will play in short yardage downs. We all know the saying about having two quarterbacks.

TF12 - One says the cover 2 is designed to give up some yards but not the big play. That suggests your db's are not very good, and susceptible to giving up the big play. It also flies in the face of reasoning, that if the defense is thin, we can continue to give up yards and keep the defense on the field, instead of trying for a few three and outs. It also suggests the players are not bright enough to play cover 2 on 2 downs and then go to mtm or some variation thereof particularly on what appears to be obvious passing downs. You would think an offense might have a problem coming to the line and have the defense switch out of their basic coverage to something else.
Maybe it is too much to ask of the players, but probably too much to ask of the coaching staff. In the Syracuse game it became obvious that they had one pretty good receiver(Sales?). You would think he would draw double coverage now and then.

TF12 - One says the cover 2 is designed to give up some yards but not the big play. That suggests your db's are not very good, and susceptible to giving up the big play.

The cover 2 or Tampa 2 worked well in the NFL as a defense designed to keep everything in front of the defense, prevent the big play and capitalize on offensive mistakes as well as put pressure on the qb from the defensive front. Monte has had to make adjustments to make it work in college. I don't think that the issue is that the db's are not very good as much as I think it is guys learning the system. Remember, we are young and we are rotating guys in that under normal circumstances would probably be redshirting this season.

I think that this years team will look much like last years team in that we will be looking much better by about the 6th or 7th game, than we do right now. The question will getting through the first few games healthy, getting experience for players that we will need to rely on later in the season and without a loss. If we can accomplish that, I think we finish unbeaten and play in the NCG.