The Ditch

Killer from what I understand if the PA does file the players then have to hire lawyers to negotiate on their behalf.  I'm not 100 percent sure but I think Fehr legally disappears.  I say "legally" because nobody is going to convince me he doesn't continue to run the show 100 percent behind the scenes. 

Either way all of the above might not mean a whole lot if the PA files because that will likely mean the 2 sides aren't very close to a deal. They've been at this since last Thursday going back and forth with offers. 

Until they prove me wrong I'm going to continue to insist all of this "negotiating" is nothing more then posturing for the national labor board and the courts.  This way everybody can say "we tried" and "we had good intentions"..... 

The players will not file.  They can and will file again if a CBA doesn't get done.

Players at todays meetings Craig Adams, Brad Boyes, Chris Campoli, Mathieu Darche, Rick DiPietro, Shane Doan, Andrew Ference, Ron Hainsey, Jamal Mayers, George Parros, Martin St. Louis and Kevin Westgarth.  Just so you know.

I figured worst case would be the the player reps would have to do the negotiating while Fehr stays out of the room and tells them what to do. Then as soon as the reps leave the room they run everything through Fehr before it goes out to the players. In my opinion Fehr is doing a great job. If you break it down to the simplest way possible as the leader on the NHLPA he really only has 2 things to accomplish. Get his current and future members the best possible deal he can. And make the NHL/Owners think long and hard about locking out the players next time. Judging by how the owners offers have increased and how rattled Bettman was when the talks broke off after the "new" owners/players had their turn in the sun I would say he is doing a great job. After this CBA gets done Fehr will be done with his job and probably made the life easier for the next guy (his brother?) when its time to talk CBA. He has no responsibility to us fans. It sucks, but its the truth.

He has no responsibility to us fans.

It's too bad that perspective isn't shared by most.    I wish most of the judgement on Fehr would be in the context of how he serves the PA's interests only.

I liked the blog entry on CBS about new years resolutions.    I think that theme has potential.  

I think we need to explore ideas and resolutions for ourselves, ditchlife, and teams.

Your help would be appreciated....I need this, I think the negotiations tonight will only anger the voices.

It's too bad that perspective isn't shared by most.    I wish most of the judgement on Fehr would be in the context of how he serves the PA's interests only.

Fair enough.  In the end how he serves the PA's interests is all that matters.  What makes me scratch my head is what seems to be the two biggest issues on the table right now is pensions and the maximum length of contracts.   He's not only trying to get the owners to commit funding the players pension but wants a commitment that lasts beyond the next CBA?  How can the owners agree to something like that in advance without knowing what the financial health of the game is going to look like in a few years?  And as for contracts I get what he's trying to do but what percentage of today's NHL players are going to see contract offers of more then 6 or 7 years?

As for the fans call me naive but I think what Bettman said a long time ago that pissed a lot of people on these boards off is true.  He basically said or implied NHL fans will be back regardless of when the lockout ends.   Yeah some fans won't be back but in my opinion just as many new fans will eventually make their way in.  The problem the NHL is going to have in the very near future that isn't  going away overnight if the season is completely cancelled is sponsors, advertisers and networks are going to be very upset.  A major beer company sponsor threatening to sue for losses?  A free 200 million dollar season tacked on to NBC's agreement in a few years?  That's not good stuff...

I'll say one thing about fehr, he's conducted himself in a very professional manner throughout this whole process, he hasn't enganged in the media war with bettman. That day when they met in new york, and everything fell through, and gary was fuming in front of the mics, I think was the turning point, the nhl realized they were dealing with someone that really couldn't care less about hockey, isn't a fan, he's just a negotiator, and nothing more.

He really schooled the owners and bettman, and I think for the first time, they realized that they weren't dealing with a hockey guy, he doesn't belong to that circle, and the whole drama that they might have used on goodenow, wasn't having any effect on fehr, that's not to say that many players aren't getting killed by this whole process, its tough for everyone involved, I'm not sure the owners will want to go through this again, when the next cba expires.

lots to catch up on here.

congrats killer.

 I always feel bad for the brides having weddings during big sporting events.

part of me does, the rest says she probably knew the job was dangerous when she took it.

Apple should be as embarrassed for their product as I am some of these truncated half posts that continue to plague me

yes, they certainly should be. unfortunately, history shows they aren't.

as for fehr's responsibility toward the fans, or lack thereof:

bob touched on it. he negotiated 50 percent for the players, but if he damages the product by effing the fans over, it's 50 percent of a lot less. is it a better deal for the players if they end up with less because attendance, sponsorships, and merchandise sales drop off?

whatever his principles may be, he's a damn fool if he leaves the fans out of his considerations. that applies to him as well as the league. at some point he MUST consider the fans.

Sorry lulz, but fehr's only resposibility is toward the players, he doesn't owe anything to the fans, he represent the players interest, it's the nhl that has to worry about those issues(IR,PR)

Sorry lulz, but fehr's only resposibility is toward the players, he doesn't owe anything to the fans, he represent the players interest, it's the nhl that has to worry about those issues(IR,PR)

yes, and his responsibility to the players includes them getting paid. no hockey = no pay. serious damage to the brand = less pay. it's not complicated.

If the players told him they were willing to accept a deal, at anytime throughout the last three months, he would've done it. He's only fighting because they want it to keep going, and he's doing what he know's best, how to negotiate the best deal possible.

Bettman on the other hand, has to worry about the reprecussions from walking sponsors, tv deals etc, everything that he's built up since becoming the commissioner, so he stands more to lose in this.

they are both ass****s. i'm happy one of them appeals to you.

in any case, they BOTH have to consider the fans, or the whole thing dies while they stand on their precious principles.

Do you mean fans or corporate support's perception of fans?    I think history has shown they can step on the fans as long as they fluff the sponsors and corporate ticket holders.

fans. people who BUY stuff. tickets, food and beer, absurdly expensive sweaters. center ice subscriptions.  people who watch it on TV and make a network want to renew a large contract. the people the sponsors think about. more is good, less is bad.

failing to come to an agreement here would not be good.

am i missing something here? is there some mechanism that allows players to make more money with fewer people watching?

The meetings are over at least for tonight.  No info yet.

Meeting again tomorrow.  Mediator has been involved all day.

Sounds like enough progress was made to avoid the disclaimer...for now.

They must be very close or both sides are rearming the nukes.

Pensions still an issue, I wonder what the next issue will be.

Year 2 cap an issue too.

PA wants 65 million, NHL wants 60 million.

We already know a solution like splitting the difference won't be considered by either side for at least a week.

It could be that Fehr's just being brought in this one time as a troubleshooter, try to hammer out a good cba in the players favour, and then he's off, back to retirement.

More (MOAR) negotiations to resume at 10am ET. Bettman says some progress has been made. Thats about the first time either one of the big shots have had something sort of positive to say. Hope the gap between both sides continues to shrink.

fans. people who BUY stuff. tickets, food and beer, absurdly expensive sweaters. center ice subscriptions.  people who watch it on TV and make a network want to renew a large contract. the people the sponsors think about. more is good, less is bad.

failing to come to an agreement here would not be good.

Obviously.
But we were talking about Fehr's relationship to that revenue and when, when, and how much he needs to make the fans a concern while serving the players best interest as he was instructed.

We'll have a better idea when a deal is signed whether or not he screwed the players out of money or not.    Maybe we'll know how his role was defined a little more clearly as well.

Right now, I agree with you and I think he did/is costing the players money.   He's proved me wrong too many times over for me to make that assumption yet.     Just like last CBA, it'll take a few years to sort out.   

i can't wait for the end of bowl season. i feel dirty watching the poker network, and i'm pretty sure the TV's not happy about it either.

ooooohhhhhh   the Dirty Poker Network....sounds good.    What channel?

Back to the fan thing, I guess I don't see what the players have done since the last lockout to market the game or develop any brand associated with the league.    Compared to all the other major pro sports that's been done on the league and franchise level so I don't see too much reason (for the negotiation purposes) for Fehr to be too worried about what the players do to the fans.    I think the fan thing falls more on the league side given where the players have been at most of the last decade. 

It's 1230 in NY, what's the damn word on the disclaimer?