Toronto Maple Leafs 2

Krejci, Lucic, Marchand, and Seguin are all impact players taken early in the draft. Dont forget Patrice Bergeron. that's a pretty solid core. 

bergeron, i knew i was forgetting something.

no doubt it's a solid core, but a large majority of your team (including your 2 best players that year, thomas and chara) were drafted by other teams.  I don't think you HAVE to develop ALL your own guys, you can build a team through FA and trades, as long as you know how to do it right.  obviously you need to have some of your own draft picks develop, but your team doesn't need to centered on those guys.  boston won with a team mostly acquired through trade and FA, the Kings won last year with a good deal of their key players acquired the same way (carter, richards, gagne, scuderi, penner, stoll, richardson, williams, etc).  you definitely need to develop some of your own players, but you don't need a whole team that you developed, only a few guys will do. 

i think the problem, as it refers to burke, is that he did a crappy job of drafting and developing his own palyers, but he was also pretty inept and signing free agents, and other than the lupul/gardiner deal, wasn't all that great at making trades either. 

 I don't think you HAVE to develop ALL your own guys, you can build a team through FA and trades, as long as you know how to do it right. 

you dont need to draft all of your players, but you need to be able to draft and develope a solid core. i can't think of one example where that is not the case. Who did the Leafs have in place to build around? 


Sure most teams are made up of a large number of FAs or trade pickups but there needs to be a solid core in place or it's all for not. Bruins dont make the playoffs, let alone win the Cup, w/ out 5 of their top 6 Fs whom they drafted and developed. Kings dont win the Cup w/ out Dustin Brown, Anze Kopitar, Drew Doughty and Jonathan Quick. Even the losers of those Cups had solid cores that they developed. Look at the Devils (2011), Canucks, Hawks, Flyers, Penguins, Wings and so on. All drafted and developed a core of players and supplemented the roster w/ additional players through FA and trades.


 

i don't deny that drafting and developing is important, i just think having a GM who is good at making trades and signing FA's is just as important, if not more important.  if you fail to develop a player, well it sucks, but it doesn't necessarily hurt your team.  however, one bad trade, or one albatross FA contract can severely hurt your team going forward.  I think you HAVE to have players you developed to win, i think the nature of the business, ELC's, RFA's, etc, makes it impossible to not have core players on your team that you've developed. 

either way, i think we can all agree that burke did it all wrong.  didn't draft or develop a solid core, didn't make good FA signings, and made a lot of bad trades.

good drafting creates good trade value needed to get the core players , thats if u decide not tokeep them,like Kings did with simmonds.

Bergeron wasn't a bad pick when he broke camp as an 18 year old.

The whole problem with the leafs that handcuffed them at the time, were those no-trade clauses they handed out like candy to those five players, which included sundin. They were left not being able to trade any of them for any real talent, although they did end up trading kaberle much later, for much less than they would've got for him years earlier. They were totally bankrupt of any talent or depth. Burke was the wrong guy for the job, burke loves the lights and attention, and a rebuild isn't going to give him that.

You guys say its possible to trade for your core, but, with what players? You think antropov and tucker, would've gotten you some talented prospect, or tie domi and ponikorovsky? They were in a situation where they only way to bring in talent was to sit and wait, and draft, and sit and wait, and load up.

You guys say its possible to trade for your core, but, with what players? You think antropov and tucker, would've gotten you some talented prospect, or tie domi and ponikorovsky? They were in a situation where they only way to bring in talent was to sit and wait, and draft, and sit and wait, and load up.

i think it's possible, but you have to make the right trades.  ones that address your teams needs.  if burke had traded those 2 firsts for a franchise center, instead of a winger, or if he had gotten rid of stajan/white/and whoever else he shipped off for dion "the pilon" phaneuf, and picked up a goalie instead, this would be a VERY different team IMO. 

to be a great team, you need to have a GM who can pull off the great trades AND who can be a wizard at the draft.  i don't think you can win with only one or the other.  you say that there's no team in recent memory who's won without a core of developed guys.....at the same time, there isn't a team i can think of in recent memory who's won without a lot of key and core FA and trade pickups either. 

you need both, and the leafs had neither under burke

It's possible, you have to get REAL lucky, give me an example right now, where you could trade two firsts and a second rounder for a franchise centremen. Why would a team rip apart their core, for two unknown draft picks? Even a team that would take on a rebuild, they still keep their remaining core intact, sens are proof of that, through thick and thin, alfredsson was always a mainstay.

Kessel was possible, only because the Bruins were at odds with his play, he didn't fit into their system, and burke bit, because he knew these were the only deals available, high risk, and medium reward. He didn't get a guy you could build around, and I can't think of a player that would be in his prime where you could pull something like that off, maybe right now, you could get a datsyuk, but look at his age.

Same thing with phaneuf, large cap hit, not the same player that we seen in the juniors, and a team more than willing to part, that they took back a bag of pucks, it made burke look like a genius temporarily, and rushing to make him captain was only to make it look mit was even more of a steal that it was perceived to be.

give me an example right now, where you could trade two firsts and a second rounder for a franchise centremen.

the canes gave up the 9th pick and a 3rd line center to get Jordan Staal, who's a top line center on more than half the teams in the league, and would EASILY be the best center in teh leafs organization.  if burke would have waited until maybe the trade deadline, instead of blowing his wad on a player that the leafs didn't even need, he might have been able to get a legit top line center for what he paid for kessel, or he would have realized that "hey, my team sucks, i can draft a franchise center and still keep my other picks".  it was a terrible move that set this franchise back years, and there is a real legit possibility that kessel will end up walking away from toronto for nothing.

We'll see if that trade works out for the Canes or not.  I like Jordan Staal, I always have like the guy a lot.  But the 8th overall pick the Canes gave up ended up being a player doing darn well in the WHL right now and looking like a very promising dman.  And I'm not sure that Brandon Sutter doesn't become a very good player for the Pens too.   In my opinion if anything that trade will end up being good for both teams, it's probably not quite the steal some Canes fans think it is. 

@Sens, not to take anything away from staal, but he isn't a player you'll build a championship around, I was thinking more along the lines of a kopitar or tavares, staal, can be had for that price, but he won't build you a winner, kessel will produce more, although he could check better.

I'm not sure 2 first rounders, plus a second would land you (tavares,kopitar,malkin or stamkos).

Burke's philosophy toward the trucluence was his downfall, he failed to realize the way the game changed more toward skill and speed, and taking on a good checker, must also mean, a smart player that can also contribute offensively.

You guys make alot of great points, and although I'm part of the rare breed that likes the Kessel trade (yes it would have been better to get him for less, duh), I can't help but worry that most of these moves were made by the guy that just took over for Burke, lol. I hope not having Burke around changes Nonis' philosophy because I do fully agree with bob that having a tough team means nothing when they're tough guys with no skill. That being said Mike Brown is a workhorse and I hope he sticks around.

And now for the position that's hurt the leafs more than anything in the past decade...who will be our goalie? Will we get Luongo? If not, will Reimer get back to playing like he did in his rookie year now that Allaire is gone and he can go back to his old style?

Halak is a possibility, if reimer flops, leafs don't have a hope in hell of making the playoffs.

Halak is a possibility, if reimer flops, leafs don't have a hope in hell of making the playoffs.

I think that he's a much better option than Luongo. Not sure that he'll become expendable and I dont trust Brian Elliot enough to think Halak becomes available. If he does I think that Halak would thrive in Toronto. Still begs the question though- at what cost? a couple of 1st rounders again?

Halak is a possibility, if reimer flops, leafs don't have a hope in hell of making the playoffs

there is no way that the Blues move Halak.  i don't think anybody on the planet thinks that Brian Elliott is going to repeat what he did last year.  halak is the man in StL.

as for reimer, i think even average play from reimer won't give the leafs a shot.  he needs to be STELLAR.

i think the leafs should try to get bernier, bring him in and let him develop.  don't expect him to bring you to the postseason right away, but know that he'll eventually (within a couple of year) blossom into a legit #1.  and he probably wouldn't be THAT EXPENSIVE to acquire.

  i don't think anybody on the planet thinks that Brian Elliott is going to repeat what he did last year

oh, there's at least one. can't remember his name, and he may have been banned (think he was), but there was a VERY militant Blues "fan" here last season that flamed halak at every opportunity, and essentially said he couldn't even carry elliot's jock.

i know who youre talking about Lulz, it was something like mjlk###

he was great. would go straight to guns if there was anything that he perceived to be non pro Blues.

X- Blues PP looked bad last night even though they got that garbage goal. 
mjlk###- YOURE THE GARBAGE GOAL IDIOT. HOWD YOUR PP DO LAST NIGHT?!?!

X- my favorite team didnt play last night
mjlk###- EXACTLY YOU MORON! SHUT YOUR MOUTH AND KNOW YOUR ROLE!!!!

X- awesome. 
mjlk##- YOUR MOMS AWESOME

something like that 

giving wilsin an extension was just dumb and lazy, hiring carlye was just as bad, leaf fans willsoon find out

LOL matty, ya, that's him alright, and now that u mention it, pretty sure it was mjklaughs. if so, as commander garry once said, it's GONE, macready.

but u forgot my favorite:

X - halak kicked ass tonight.

MJK - YOU ARE A MORON AND GAY, he is TERRIBLE!!!!! OMG HOW CAN U BE THAT STUPID?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

oh ya, mjklaughs. 

i'll bet that he rears his head after the Blues win a few games. 

somewhat peaceful on these boards w/out guys like him and farmer ted. i could get used to this. 

i know who youre talking about Lulz, it was something like mjlk### he was great. would go straight to guns if there was anything that he perceived to be non pro Blues.

X- Blues PP looked bad last night even though they got that garbage goal.
mjlk###- YOURE THE GARBAGE GOAL IDIOT. HOWD YOUR PP DO LAST NIGHT?!?!

X- my favorite team didnt play last night
mjlk###- EXACTLY YOU MORON! SHUT YOUR MOUTH AND KNOW YOUR ROLE!!!!

X- awesome.
mjlk##- YOUR MOMS AWESOME

something like that

haha, awesome.  sounds like korby

haha, awesome.  sounds like korby

 

in a way, but he took it to a level korby never went to. his principle abuse was directed, not at fans of other teams, but at his fellow Blues fans, for the unpardonable crime of liking their starting goalie.

(of course, any fan of any other team who dared to like halak was subject to the same abuse)

I wonder how mjk will return for this season.

Once the Blues hit a streak either direction, mjk might return. 

I think the Blues are a playoff team, and while I think they have the best talent in the conference 1-30 this year, I see some massive landmines for them. 

What are these bluenotes we speak of, they've been singing the Blues since '68.

Halak would be awesome. I don't see enough of Bernier to know how good he is but I hear good things. How about Buffalo's backup goalie? I forget his name but he tore it up when I saw him play last year. I'd rather a veteran because I'm impatient and after 7 years I just want to see playoff hockey. I think Luongo would get us there.

Lombardi just got traded back to Phoenix for a conditional draft pick.