Offensive Line Chatter

I never did quite understood why he wasn't starting at LG when he was one of the highest rated lineman the previous year.
I only have a one word reason for that...Carl.

I honestly think when you evaluate the OC's weve had in Chciago, he probably goes down as one of the worst we've ever had.


Turner was a genius compared to Carl.


Think about that...


 

I honestly think when you evaluate the OC's weve had in Chciago, he probably goes down as one of the worst we've ever had.


Turner was a genius compared to Carl.


Think about that...

That just made me throw up a little bit.  Only because it is true.  I hated Turner with every ounce of my being but would take him any day over Tice.  I can't believe we had to endure these two.

I also think that Tice was one of the worst OC's in the history of football, not just for the Bears.

I hope Long doesnt go for the 15 million everyones expecting.

Saw something on NFL.com yesterday that Long was looking for somewhere in the $10 million a year range.  The Dolphins have already low balled him so they are not looking like they are serious about bringing him back.  I would throw a contract in his face right now and say "sign here" if that is what he wants.  It would be a bit of a risk but if comes back healthy and plays to his capabilities, this is a steal. 

Saw something on NFL.com yesterday that Long was looking for somewhere in the $10 million a year range.  

I read this as well. He's looking for 10 million per for a few years. 20 guaranteed over 2 seasons with an option on the third would probably get this done.

It's hard for me to come up with an argument as to why this doesn't make senes. But, from everything I am hearing, the Bears may look to solve LT by drafting and not FA...

For the first time in years (possibly the first time in my life), I can safely say "We shouldn't target a #1 receiver".   Even better, I don't think we even need to focus on a #2. And, when I look at the roster, I think we are looking pretty good in the slot position as well.

Me too.  This is weird.  However I strongly disagree with slot position.  I think Earl Bennett is getting paid too much for too little production; and minus his week 17--he would have been out a job.  He'll get another year, but I wouldnt give him one.  I want a shorter burner; Titus Young, fighting and seemingly about to get cut from the Lions would look good.  He wants balls thrown his way--Jay can do that in this new offense.

Unless Johnny Knox is due back......but people are saying his career is over.

As I mentioned before, the Bears should have in the neighborhood of 35 million of cap room to play with.

Your cuts are accurate as is the estimated 32-35 mil, however you dont anticipate Melton resigning, or Okuye, or potentially Idonije, or Wootten, or the FA list you'd want to keep.  Melton is looking easily at a Tommie Harris-like extension.  Maybe not 10 mil a year, but in that ballpark.  Or the franchise tag of 7.9 million year one for a DT. But I cant think he'd like that.....give the man a deal.

I also think you're lowballing what BU would get on a new deal.  I think he gets 4-6 mil.

The positive is we will not be drafting a Dlineman in the first round this year...

*furiously knocks on wood*  my fear is this Ezikiel Ansah kid falls......far.  And interrior OL and TE and OT are all gone so Emery goes into "best player available" mode.

I know many (if not all) think we need to go out and get a stud TE. I don't disagree. However, we have 4 TE's (after we cut Davis). And as I said before, I think Emery feels he drafted his receiving TE guy last year with Evan Rodriguez. 

So the reality is the Bears/Emery have ZERO excuses (IMO) to not go out in FA and the draft and get Oline talent. We can afford Long. We can afford Long AND Bushrod. We can use our first round pick on a good interior guy / center as well. ANd efter those 3 pick-ups, we still have $ and draft picks.

I think we're sitting in very good shape right now.

I think we should get an above average TE in free agency.  Alot to like about Brandon Myers......receiving guy who has good, reliable hands.  And Oakland is gonna have their hands full trying to keep/replace 7 to be free agents to be of their 9 OLinemen on the roster last year.  Rodriguez and Spaeth are fine and dandy with me.  I think Adams missed his shot and wont be back next year, and my suggestion of euthanizing 87 hasnt changed.

No excuses indeed for a good LT.  Just gotta hope one slips through the cracks.  Whether it be Bushrod, Albert, or Long.  I hope Long doesnt go for the 15 million everyones expecting. 

Unless you're getting a a guy like Markice Pouncey or Ryan Kahlil, replacing Garza with a rookie will be tough.

So, don't count Edwin Williams out.

I dont know, Barrett Jones would be spectacular.  And its not like teams havent started from the beginning.  Seattle's Max Unger was a rookie turned solid guy.  John Sullivan on the Vikings is another.  Tough?  For a year.  Can it be done?  No doubt.  5th round pick got himself a 5 year 25 million dollar deal.  Alex Mack is another one.

Donald Thomas is another FA I can see coming in and starting LG or C.  Logan Mankins blocked him this year, but when he played hes a starting calibur guard on any other team; who I think Emery can steal like the Bills did Kraig Urbik on his new deal.

Bushrod/Albert/Long--Thomas--Barret
t Jones--Lance Louis--Carimi

Good starting 5, I make damn sure to draft a back up OT in the 2nd or 4th (I really like Oday Aboushi's ability to pass block), keeping Jonathan Scott, Williams and James Brown......   

I completely agree that the majority of available resources need to be used in getting Melton under contract and fixing the o-line. I'd really like to see a TE signed.

But if the Dolphins are trying hard to sign a Dewayne Bowe or Greg Jennings this offseason and they take their eyes off Brian Hartline...........the Bears could and should make a play there. I don't think his price tag will be very big.

You can never have enough weapons and Hartline could be the slot guy we really need. I like Bennett but he has just never taken that next step either do to injury or just not having the chance.

Unless Johnny Knox is due back......but people are saying his career is over.

Last I heard on him, he was still learning to walk right... The Bears did him a solid by putting him on the PUP and then IR. Basically ensured he got paid last year when there was no way in the world he was going to play... So yes, from what I understand, he's done.

Your cuts are accurate as is the estimated 32-35 mil, however you dont anticipate Melton resigning, or Okuye, or potentially Idonije, or Wootten, or the FA list you'd want to keep. 

I mentione Melton above. Wootton is under contract. I doubt Okoye will be back and my guess is Idonije will take what we gave him last year... But in general, good point on the FA's. 

Here is the current list of Bears Free Agents, and my guess on if they will be kept a Bear or not:



Keep / Re-sign

Henry Melton DT UFA - Will ge a big raise

Brian Urlacher LB UFA - Will take a big pay cut

Jonathan Scott T UFA  - Proably re-signs for similar as 2012

Lance Louis G UFA  - A lot depends on his recovery. I think Allen cost this guy a significant amount of $

Nate Collins DT RFA - Should get a raise

Kelvin Hayden CB UFA - Probably re-sign for similar to 2012

Israel Idonije DE UFA - Probably re-sign for similar to 2012

D.J. Moore CB UFA - If we keep him, will get a raise

On the Bubble:

Armando Allen RB RFA - Trestman may like his scat-back skills in his offense. But, he'll be cheap if we do keep

Zachary Bowman CB UFA - A special teamer and depth on D. I think Emery re-signs if the price is right.

Nick Roach LB UFA - 

Chris Spencer G UFA - If we re-sign, he is goign to take a massive pay cut. I think he is allowed to walk.. 

Probably Gone:

Jason Campbell QB UFA - Did absolutely nothing to earn that 3.5 million

Kahlil Bell RB UFA - Bye

Johnny Knox WR UFA - Wish him luck..

Olindo Mare K UFA - Gone

Josh McCown QB UFA  - Gone

Troy Nolan S RFA - Who?

Amobi Okoye DT UFA - I'd like to see him kept for depth, but I don't see Trestman spending "depth" money on this side of the ball...

Chilo Rachal G UFA - Garbage

Devin Thomas WR UFA - Quitter...

Mongo, only thing I change with your post is Amobi Okoye and Kelvin Hayden.  Hayden should not be on this roster next year.  Moore should be back and Sherrick McMannis should resume his excellent ST play and take over for nickel if needbe.  I see no reason why Okoye shouldnt stay, him leaving again leaves Melton (assuming hes resigned) Paea, and Collins.  Has Toeaina been cut?  He should be on the "shouldnt return" list instead of Okoye. 

Zachary Bowman was a drunk dial signing gone wrong.  Had to have been.  Dude is still a bum.  Can this Isaiah Frey kid play?  Or is he another 2 year PS guy only to end up in Canada?  Plug him in.

Roach I'd retain, and if I could snare a Donald Thomas I'd plug him in.

I appreciate the LEADERSHIP comment from bigrob. Olin and Urlacher for a long time were the leaders of the Bears. I think that we have enough guys to step in with a leadership role on the defense if Urlacher leaves or retires(Briggs, Peanut, Wooten) but clearly we do lack a true leader on Offense. On most teams it is the quarterback and MAYBE Cutler can step up but I somehow do not see him in that role. TO me it almost has to come from someone they do not have on the roster right now because I do not see wide receivers being the sort of person teammates generally look at in that capacity. Most WRs are considered prima donnas and flakes. The existing OL guys are not good enough in their own jobs to be a leader of anyone else.

Well Al, theres plenty of WRs that are captains on their teams:  Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, Megatron, Santonio Holmes, Steve Smith, Fitzgerald, and I think a few others like Donald Driver/Greg Jennings?

Regardless, I know what you mean about them being hot dogs.  If Lance Louis were to return healthy, and Garza is gone--I'd make Lance a C on the OL.  Give the guy a contract, hes earned one; and 1 year--I'd make him the C with my proposed line of purchased LT, Thomas, Jones, Louis, and Carimi.  If he steps up and is the man--gold star and deservingly so.  Hes got the work ethic; give him a shot at guiding the guys.

If he doesnt work, the presumed purchased LT wears the C.  Im ok if Bushrod, Albert, or Long wears it.  Pretty sure if they were told in contract negotiations theyd wear the patch it wouldnt hinder anything.

Who cares about the patch anyways. Id rather have an offensive line tat can keep Jay Cutler upright. If none of them have a Gold C on their chest Im good. The Bears offensive line has so far to go... Gabe Carimi looked terrible in 2012. The left tackle situation is the worst Ive seen. The Guards are decent but could be better. Center is eh.... In the off season I said the Chilo Rachal was a quitter. LOL. The theme to the last couple seasons with Lovie Smith is "no amount of good coaching can make crappy players better players". Theyre just well coached crappy players.

[http://nfltraderumors.co/nfl-team-c
ap-space-6/]



How do the Bears have 32 mil under the cap. I got confused.    

Chris Spencer: 3.8 million      FA off books?
Chris Williams: 4.7 million      FA off books?
Kellen Davis: 2.2 million         Read on twitter would cut would cost 1.7 cap hit
Jason Campbell: 3.5 million    FA off books
Kahlil Bell: 1.2 Million             FA of Books
J'Marcus Webb 500K          
Chilo Rachal: 700K  

I also think the following guys are on the bubble:

Roberto Garza: 2.7 million
Matt Speath: 2.2 Million
Nick Roach: 2.8 Million


In addition,

Urlacher was paid 9.7 million last year - that number will come down by at least 6 million.
Devin Hester was at 7.6 million - that number per contract comes down to 2.6 million




All of this is already included in the 13mil cap space isn't it?

So the Bears cant add to the cap number with these moves already counted. Plus the # of FA that the Bears need to sign (Melton) and extensions due soon make that 13 mil even smaller.  



another link
[http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/cont
racts/nfl/chi/]



       

Theyre good Mongo, but which ones do you see actually leaving the team?

The ones we go after with more money than they can say no to....

I also don't see any big name T out in the FA market.

Jermon Bushrod and Jake Long don't float your boat?

How about Ryan Clady, Andre Smith, Brandon Albert?

None of those guys any good?

Sorry, I don't think they will be available. Not that they are not good.


Bushrod available for sure? Jake Long going to sign for less then 12 mil a year? Still have a feeling he gets tagged.


      




      

Any chance Bears trade up and make a splash for a stud? 

NO

That was all I was going to say but to explain, they have 5 picks in this years draft, no 3rd or 7th.  No tradeable assets or anyone I would want them to give up that would warrant a high pick.

Trading down is a lot more likely, especially if they are going to draft a G, C or TE. 

Pat I agree in the direction your going because to me the two biggest areas of concern on the offensive line are C and LT, I think Carimi will be fine at RT with a little more development like you said, he does need more leg strength and I think that was lacking coming off the injury. I think Louis was solid at RG. I wouldn't mind breaking the bank to sign a Clady even if it meant ( I know this sounds crazy) to trade Peppers  to make it happen besides an extra selection couldn't hurt. (I really don't know the state of the cap, but just throwing that out there as a possibility)  If you need money for a tight end as well the Peppers trade should be considered if you want to bring in a big time tight end upgrade. Besides we also don't know where Urlacher is in all of this, and regardless a ILB is also on the to do list. Depending on what direction they go in the FA market they have to try to solve those remaining positions in the draft. Sure the defense would take a hit with the loss of Peppers no doubt, but the offense could move forward light years with an upgrade at tackle and tight end.

The way I would like things to go by keeping Peppers

• Why not trade down a couple spots from #20 and grab Barrett Jones
• Sign Brandon Albert
• Draft a tight end or LB in the 2nd

but keep in mind draft by best available overwhelming talent.

Go Bears

Trading Peppers to free up space doesn't sound crazy at all. I even reccomended it a week or so ago elsewhere. 

But I dont know how big of a Cap hit he will actually give us this year? Because I seem to remember hearing that his contract was front loaded so that would obviously play into it. Why trade/Cut peppers if it only frees up 4m in cap space, for example. 

There is just no way the Broncos lose Clady. I would bet  $50 to 1$ odds on it.

[http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl
/2361/player]

But I dont know how big of a Cap hit he will actually give us this year? Because I seem to remember hearing that his contract was front loaded so that would obviously play into it. Why trade/Cut peppers if it only frees up 4m in cap space, for example.

No idea if the above link is accurate. I dont use rotoworld much. It says Peppers 2013 salary is $12.9 million with a cap number of $16.3 million. Can anyone confirm these numbers or give different numbers?

The problem is I dont see Ryan Clady, Brandon Albert, or Andre Smith hitting the market.

Ryan Clady obviously is a beast and Peyton's contract probably came with some sort of guarentee that they keep him. Not really,  but you know what I mean, hes not going anywhere.

Brandon Albert is the Tackle for new Coach Andy Reid. A bad offensive line has really haunted Reid the past couple of years in Philly, and Reid has continuously shown he is dedicated to at least TRYING to fix it. With that history, I dont see Reid letting this guy go.

Andre Smith is a pretty good run blocking Tackle on a Bengals team that has utilized the run effectively for a few years now. The Bengals are a young offense still developing and they will likely retain him too.



So who does that leave available? Well at Tackle there is Jake Long, Vollmer from NE, and Jerome Bushrod.  

Didnt finish. I dont really want Jake Long as his price will be too big and there are some concerns there. Vollmer has an injury history and will turn 30 soon. Bushrod would be my guy but will he really leave New Orleans?

With the 20th pick in the 2013 NFL Draft, the Chicago Bears select Lane Johnson, Offensive Tackle, Oklahoma.


Lane is a brawler who is only going to get better. Strong enough to defend the bulrush, and quick and agile enough to defend


the speedrush. I believe this is the way the Bears will go. And I like it. In the 2nd round, Larry Warford from Kentucky.


No messing around, get the offensive line fixed. NOW !!!


I think the Bears will sign a FA TE, such as Jared Cook, who would love to play for the Bears after all the QB problems

in Tenn. If Lane is gone at pick #20, then they will take a LB, like Ogletree.


This would be a great scenario for the Bears, and they will have a great season.                 


   


  

While I was never a fan of Mike Tice piling high on dude is a bit harsh. Its not like his offensive line allowed him to do a whole hell of a lot as far as play calling goes. He had to keep to the company line and support his players or else not only would they suck but they would quit on Tice. I DO believe that if Tice had an AVERAGE offensive line with continuity he would have done a decent job.

Granted Tice had to go because he was Lovies crony and NO WAY doeas Trestman keep him with his new group.

This has all the makings of a make or break season. Cutler has 1 year left and if the Bears dont address his concerns I believe he will bail and then the Bears have what???

Solution?

Fix the F'ing line as many of us have clammored for the last 4 years. If the Bears can block Cutler has time to make better reads = less picks. Plays can develop = Marshall doesnt have to run 3 foot routes and stiff arm 8 dudes for a 5 yard gain. Forte can make 1 cut and take off = less 1 yard and a cloud of dust.

Who doesnt want that???

With the 20th pick in the 2013 NFL Draft, the Chicago Bears select Lane Johnson, Offensive Tackle, Oklahoma.

Like the pick - a lot. But don't think he is taken in the first round. A lot can change with the Combine, etc...

If he is there when we pick in the 2nd round, he becomes a no-brainer.

If the Bears don't target a LT in FA they're making a serious mistake imo. The FA market at T is deeper than G and C combined. Conversely, G/C seems like a much more realistic pick from our draft slot. The Bears can't afford to bust out on another Tackle. They need a proven commodity, now.

I've never seen a FA TE market with as much quality depth as this. There are literally 8 guys out there who would be massive upgrades and are ALL under 28years old. Even allowing for some resigns, thats a ton of options. If your the Bears i don't know how you don't take a TE in FA to be honest.

If we don't take at least one quality OL and a TE in FA it'll be a massive missed opportunity. But for now i think the will get that done.

I agree 100%.

It is hard to pencil in a rookie as a starter and not expect some growing pains. Even a 1st round pick. Look at Reiff and DeCastro ( injury ) from last year.

Williams had growing pains ( back issues also ), was moved around, settled in at LG, and was benched for some reason. Carimi was injured early in 2011 and essentially played his rookie season in 2012. There were growing pains ( leg issues also ) for him as well. Louis had growing pains and he turned into a quality RG. It takes time to develop... Signing a proven FA LT ( or LG/or both ) is the smart move and shouldn't stop the Bears from drafting one if a quality prospect is on the board.

As far as TE, considering the options available and the waste of size Davis is, there are opportunities for huge upgrades. You can never have enough weapons for an offense. A dual threat TE can contribute to the OL by blocking and help the WRs by catching. A QBs best friend. A good TE can even go out wide and create mismatches supplementing a weak/injury depleted WR core. Signing a proven FA TE is the smart move and shouldn't stop the Bears from drafting one if a quality prospect is on the board.

Davis, Spaeth, and Adams could all be released/replaced. ERod has potential, but can't be depended upon as a starter going into the season ( needs time to develop ). He also seems to be a better fit as a Hback/FB type that can catch out of the backfield and play a little TE. Good lead blocker/3rd TE.  

If we don't take at least one quality OL and a TE in FA it'll be a massive missed opportunity. But for now i think the will get that done.

Yes. That will allow the Bears to take the best available OL/TE/LB in the 1st round. 

  

Davis, Spaeth, and Adams could all be released/replaced

I'd keep Speath. He was the #1 rated blocking TE in the NFL - and 7th overall (when including pass catchers). If not for him, Webb prob would have allowed another 20 sacks...

I'd probably also keep Adams - seems to be a quality (and cheap) depth guy.

Hard for me to even mention the last guy you noted without wanting to throw my keyboard through my monitor... But, yea, we should start a thread called "CUT Kellen Davis" or something to that effect... 

SM those numbers earlier on in the thread, great stuff. But they didn't include dead money that won't apply next season did they? Guys like Taylor, Williams, Omiyale and Barber will all be off the books. There's over 3.5mil in total, i assume that could go towards increasing our cap space?

ERod has potential, but can't be depended upon as a starter going into the season ( needs time to develop ). He also seems to be a better fit as a Hback/FB type that can catch out of the backfield and play a little TE. Good lead blocker/3rd TE. 

Im trying to think about this, but he ever once set as an in-line TE run a route and catch a pass? I just remember Rodriguez coming out the backfield to make his catches. I'd agree he's really been a replacement for Clutts than a true TE so far. And i'm fine with that, its just from what i saw last year im struggling to get why the Bears thought he would be a pass-catching TE.

Im trying to think about this, but he ever once set as an in-line TE run a route and catch a pass? 

Not even one...


Personally, at 6'-2", he feels like an undersized receiving TE. Especially knowing Cutler's tendencies.


There is no one that was more negative on this guy than  I was. In fact, in my mock final 53 last year, he didn't make it...

But by the end of camp and pre-season, the media was really talking this guy up.  When the media talks up a guy who I see no chance in, it really makes me think the team is doing a lot of "swaying". Maybe it's my underlying detest and distrust for the media. But, them talking him up told me the team liked him.


Which told me Emery liked him.

We'll see where it goes this year. I think he's best served acting as a lead run blocking FB with some ball catching skills.

I however strongly believe Emery is going is going to give him every chance to win the starting TE role. And that means we will not see an early TE drafted nor a big name TE picked up in FA. 

I don't recall him playing much if any in-line TE last year either. That doesn't necessarily mean he can't play some with development. At this point though, there is no way he should be considered starting material at TE.

But by the end of camp and pre-season, the media was really talking this guy up.  When the media talks up a guy who I see no chance in, it really makes me think the team is doing a lot of "swaying". Maybe it's my underlying detest and distrust for the media. But, them talking him up told me the team liked him.

When I saw him in camp he seemed to postion himself well shielding the ball from the defender, and that's why the media was probably talking up.

The first priority for Emery should be signing a good offensive left tackle in free agency. Everything else is secondary. I believe that Emery will do it. He virtually did the same kind of thing last year when he traded for Marshall. When he signs that LT then I would suggest they draft the best available RT tackle out there. I see Carmini being moved to guard where I think he will excel. The second pick should be a linebacker. I still think that McClellin will be moved to LB but they need to get younger and add depth to an aging corps.

I really like the tight end from U of Cincy with their 4th pick but wouldn't be averse to going after a good tight end in free agency.  If they sign a good tight end, then I'd go for a burner wide-out . I'd go as high as the 5th round to land the Honey Badger. I think that he will be a real impact player as a returner and possibly they could scheme the guy sometimes in the backfield. 6th round I look for a project type quarterback.