Ray Lewis Impact, and where he ranks

Damn, I love saying "idiot".

I mean..it is stamped on your forehead.

Sol...will you please take your friend TRANNYTROLL home with you? She's in WAYYYYYYY over her head.

Naw, if I were in way over my head I'd say something insane like, "L.T. never had any forced fumbles". Seriously...who'd say something like that?!

Naw, if I were in way over my head I'd say something insane like, "L.T. never had any forced fumbles". Seriously...who'd say something like that?!

Im still waiting on you to post the actual post where you claim I said that LT never won a ring......and I've been waiting for almost  aday but yet you continue to say I said it.

and while your at it...how about some justification that DICK who all you say is a YARDSTICK and nothing more...nothing to back up your claim.

So work on that huh...till then you amount to nothing more than a HATING STEELER HOMER who after Sunday night will be butthurt even more without even naming the winner of the Super Bowl.

Please, tell us again how L.T. never had any forced fumbles, RM. That's what you said, right? "Zero. Zilch. Nada". What's the matter? Didn't see him play?

Please, tell us again how L.T. never had any forced fumbles, RM. That's what you said, right? "Zero. Zilch. Nada".

Go to NFL.com....that is where I got the info from. Didn't make it up, didn't fabricate anything. If you have issues with what they report take it up with them.

But don't try and spin this....you still owe me the explanation of what you are accusing me of.....WHER IS THE POST THAT I SAID LT DIDN"T WIN A RING...post it.....I dare you to find it....time and date stamped if you would...and the thread it is posted on. I've been asking you for alomst 24 hours and you still can't so it...so you are a FRAUD.....and a TROLL......dispute that if you can.

What's the matter? Didn't see him play?

Not regularly....I live in Maryland not New Jersey.

[http://www.nfl.com/player/lawrencet
aylor/2503264/profile]


Here..so you don't try and say that NFL.com never gets anything wrong.

Maniac,

Since you glossed over my own, very reasonable post on this subject then I'll enter the fracas from a new angle.  I saw your comment about LT not having any forced fumbles in his entire career and knew that was totally inaccurate without even having to look it up.  Where you do look dumb is for even bothering to post something like that.  

I just now went to pro-football-reference.com (which is typically my favorite site to go to for stats) to see if they'd have it documented so that I could give you a concrete number and guess what?  Lawrence Taylor also doesn't have a single tackle or assist.  ZIP, NADA, ZILCH...as you so eloquently put it.  Certain defensive statistics didn't become official until fairly recently in the timeline of the NFL.  Regardless, to even think that the best OLB in the history of the NFL didn't record a single forced fumble in his career (and apparently zero tackles too - damn is he overrated, or what?) proves one of two things or both:

1) You never watched him play
2) Your football knowledge sucks

You can't hide behind the excuse that the sites you looked at were just wrong.  The onus falls on you to have known better than that.

Steelerking.....I hear what you are saying but you yourself come from a Steelerland of people who base their entire argument on STATS from what are supposed to be credible sites. Others have pointed out that there is also a possibility that NFL.com did not start compiling this stat till after LT retired.

As to never watching him play...I have seen a few games where he played. You have to remember that you are at the mercy of the network and who they choose to view in any particular area. I am not a big Giants fan anyway so LT was nothing more than a name to me.

My football knowledge sucks.....becuase I don't follow a team that I have no interest in. My God man...he retired in 1981......I was 19 and chasing tail more than watching football. So now I guess if you post what you read about what you are allegedly supposed to know then you are of lower knowledge? WHATEVER. All I know is that the Ravens are set on subnday to play in the Super Bowl and barring any untimely death in the family I'm going to be sitting there enjoying the game......while Steeler fans are gearing up for a horrible post Super Bowl revelation.

You can't hide behind the excuse that the sites you looked at were just wrong.

Who's hiding? I've been here everyday...even after I said what I said.

I'm hanging around waiting for little MISS TRANNYTROLL to get of the DICK and YARDSTICK and show me where I said that LT...didn't win a ring. But of course since she is a Steeler fan...or an alleged Steeler fan she gets a pass when she knows it to be an untrue statement that she made made only to stir the pot.

I am also waiting for her/him/it to explain how she claims that DICK and LT are more of an impact that RAY...which as usual she refuses or just can't do.

My football knowledge sucks.....becuase I don't follow a team that I have no interest in. My God man...he retired in 1981

Yes.  Your football knowledge sux.  LT said so long in '93 after 132.5+ sacks, 2 Supes, 3 DPOY and 1 MVP (unanimous, I believe).  Fercrissakes, do a little research, the barest amount.

And since you love to quote the nfl.com site - 100 greatest all-time players:  LT 3, Reggie White 7, BUTKUS 10, Lott 11, the Deacon 15, RayRay 18. All defensive players in top 20.  Granted, Ray's career has 1 game left and it's a biggie, but he's got a ways to go to leap frog 3 other greats, one the best MLB ever, to even break into the top 10.  

As for your claiming LT never won a ring, perhaps it was that assinine comment you made that Ray led a team to the brink of a championship, something that LT and Butkus never did about 6 pages back.  Granted, you had some BS qualifier about "a team not expected to win much", but seriously, it sure sounds like you were implying that LT never got to the promised land even once, let alone twice.  And given your previously grotesque distortions of basic football knowldedge, it's quite believable that you would post such junk thinking it were true.  

Credibility is a terrible thing to waste.

Maniac,

You're missing the point.  Based on the information you just shared you're a lot older than I am, so that excuse isn't going to work either.  Neither is the one about you not following the Giants.  When I gave the two options, one of which being that your football knowledge sucks, it's because anyone with a football IQ that's at least slightly higher than that of a discarded pig fetus should know better.  It's common sense.  LT was an OLB, so there's your first clue that there is no possible way whatsoever that he could not have recorded a single forced fumble in his career.  OLBs in a 3-4 are going to generate fumbles.  Your second clue should be the fact that he has 132.5 career sacks.  It is absolutely impossible for a guy to have that many sacks without generating a single forced fumble from the QB -- especially a bruiser like Taylor.  Go watch the ESPN special on YouTube about the Top Ten Most Feared Tacklers.  LT weighs in at #3, right behind Dick "Night Train" Lane (#2) and Dick Butkus (#1).

Again, basic football knowledge makes this a matter of common sense.  That's why when I saw your post, I immediately dismissed it as inaccurate -- no verification required.  

My football knowledge sucks.....becuase I don't follow a team that I have no interest in. My God man...he retired in 1981

Gotta love irony.  He retired in 1993. 

Gotta love irony.  He retired in 1993. 

sorry...I looked at the stats backwards. He started in 81 and retired in 93.  

sorry...I looked at the stats backwards. He started in 81 and retired in 93. 

So, you thought he started in '93 and retired in '81?  Usually, the earlier date is when someone started and the later date is when someone retired.  Just for future reference, so you don't get them backwards, again.

Go watch the ESPN special on YouTube about the Top Ten Most Feared Tacklers.  LT weighs in at #3, right behind Dick "Night Train" Lane (#2) and Dick Butkus (#1).

ok...now you are getting somewhere. You are basing your sole opinion on a show showing the most feared tacklers. So based on that show only both LT and Butkus are better than Ray?

come on man......you can do better than that. I could go on youtube also and show you some of the hardest hits in football....staring Ray Lewis and some fairly recent..like the hit he put on Chad Johnson......or the block he layed on the Denver player when Chris McAllister took a missed field goal back 107 yards vs Denver in 2002.

ok...now you are getting somewhere. You are basing your sole opinion on a show showing the most feared tacklers. So based on that show only both LT and Butkus are better than Ray?

Are you stupid or just doing a very good job acting like you are?  The purpose of me directing you to the video was solely for the sake of you not only seeing LT in action but also because there are at least three instances of forced fumbles that he created in that video alone.  Those videos have absolutely nothing to do with proving anything in regards to Ray Lewis nor did a single word in that post.  I told you exactly how I felt about Ray and where I think he ranks on the previous page. 

Damn.  That was one of the worst pulled-out-of-context quotes I've ever seen. 

My God man...he retired in 1981......I was 19 and chasing tail more than watching football.

Chasing your own tail until you were 31? 

And living in Baltimore you don't remember this?

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHCXNt4P8Xg]

At 24 years of age? Really? 

Rave"Man"

It's simple.  You can make statements like "LT never forced a fumble" or "Butkus never had a sack" and then point to a credible source and say "see, I'm right".  But, don't expect anyone to then take any of your other pronouncements with anything other than a grain of salt and a smirk. 

 
It is beyond me how anyone could make these statements and then further embarass themselves by coming up with "official websites say so" and "I live in Baltimore, so I couldn't possibly have been expected to know about players from distant lands like NY and Chicago" as statements to support such ignorance.

Anyone with an ounce of football knowledge and a modicum of self-respect, should feel like an utter fool putting out such trash.

What, no sports shows, ESPN, or web access in Baltimore when you were growing up??  You never watched post-season games or TGiving Day games??  Never read a book?

Unbelievable.

I never saw Butkus play live, but I've heard of this thing called Youtube.  I remember seeing highlights of Butkus pulverizing opposing QBs, but to be sure, I took 2 minutes and looked up "Butkus sacks".  Low and behold, there was actual footage showing Butkus absolutely destroying QBs (and RBs, and OLinemen, and his teammates, and old ladies and puppies).  Same holds true for LT.  50 some-odd strips, all nicely presented in a 5 minute vid.  Why not take a few minutes and get educated.  Again, the site is called "YouTube".



Where I stand.  Butkus number 1 at MLB, still.  IMO, he remains THE standard by which all are judged.  Lewis, awesome, but still not better than Dick.  LT not in this discussion (MLBs), but simply put, greatest defensive player at any position, ever.  Literally changed the game.



btw, as I'm sure most every other poster on these boards knows, sacks weren't officially tracked til '82. So guys like Dick and Deacon (who actually coined the term) never had them recorded.  But, it obviously doesn't mean that they didn't have any and that they weren't among the best ever at doing it.

Where I stand.  Butkus number 1 at MLB, still.  IMO, he remains THE standard by which all are judged.  Lewis, awesome, but still not better than Dick.  LT not in this discussion (MLBs), but simply put, greatest defensive player at any position, ever.  Literally changed the game.

So as I stated before.....It's your OPINION. This whole topic is people's OPINION and most are based on stats they find in various locations. I found stats on NFL.com.....Figured they would be credible but hey...sometimes they are wrong. Really, I overlooked the FF stat and didn't even think about when it was created..sorry to ruffle you feathers but I still stand by my placing Ray #1 till someone can come along with better info than what is being posted.......like starting off your rant with...WHERE I STAND or IMO...which clearly shows that it is just YOUR OPINION.

Show me something concrete...substancial and then I will listen but just as you stated IMO Ray is a great MLB and probably the best at it of all time. You can call me a homer, a hater or whatever but I have stood behind my posts and didn't just base my decision and tried to sway others with a simple......BECAUSE I SAID SO to use as justification.

Yup, RM is a kid.

He says he never saw L.T. play because he's not a bit Giants fan.

Oh...well, then.

That's like saying, "I never saw Michael Jordan play because I'm not a big Bulls fan".

When L.T. was playing he was bigger than Ray Lewis, and yes, we had ESPN back then. The way he played was to big NOT to see. RM didn't see it because he hadn't been born yet.

I'm not a big stat girl, I never have been.

I don't need stats to tell me that Joe Montana was the greatest QB ever (IMHO) because I saw the guy play. I was born about the time Dick Butkus retired but I've read books and seen footage on the guy. Why? Because I love the sport of football that much. I don't need anyone to explain to me how great that guy was or why he's stil the yardstick by which LB's are measured today. Anyone that does is just a puppy.

I remember L.T. playing I remember the devestation he had on opposing offenses. Those of us that saw the man play knew he had forced fumbles.

Saying that you didn't watch LT because you're not a Giants fan is like someone else saying they never watched Ray Lewis because they're not a Ravens fan.

He's been exposed as a child.

Anyone REALLY in his 50's - as he claims to be (30 years as a cop + 18 when you graduate HS) would have seen L.T. play ball, and would have remembered.

Anyone REALLY in his 50's - as he claims to be (30 years as a cop + 18 when you graduate HS) would have seen L.T. play ball, and would have remembered.

Tranny is right and Raven posted last year he is a RETIRED Cop.........   

Those of us that saw the man play knew he had forced fumbles.

Yes.........he was great in his prime.

You run your big fat mouth on here TROLLING from thread to thread

Were you looking in the mirror talking to yourself when you wrote that?  Do you do anything on this site other than follow MidnightRayne from thread to thread, stalking her, trolling her posts, and attacking her?  I don't think there is a thread I have read on this site in a long time where MidnightRayne has posted and you haven't followed right after with your screaming how she's a troll and an idiot and a moron and all your other name calling.

Tranny is right and Raven posted last year he is a RETIRED Cop......... 

This guy claims to be an adult and a retired cop?  That has to be a joke, or everyone calling him a kid is being really nice.  If he's a kid and acting like he does it is more understandable.  If he's an adult and a retired cop and acting like this, instead of talking about someone else needing meds and help he should considering going on meds and getting help for himself.

Do you do anyting on this site other than follow MidnightRayne around from thread to thread, stalking her, trolling her posts and attacking her?

No,he doesn't. Almost without fail anything I post he's right behind me.

I don't think there is a thread I have read on this site in a long time where MidnightRayne has posted and you haven't followed right after with your screaming how she is a troll and an idiot and a moron and all your other name calling.

More proof he's a child.

This guy claims to be an adult and retired cop?

Yes. He said he was a cop for 30 years. Given that you have to be at LEAST 18 to get onto a police force that would make him 48.

I'm going to be 45 next month. I remember when L.T. played and I remember what he did to defenses. I remember him being at full speed on his second step. He had such an impact on the game and was so unique that anyone that saw him play would remember that. You literally could not have watched football back then and NOT known how great this guy was.

The fact that RM had to LOOK UP when this guy played tells me he doesn't remember. He didn't know that L.T. had forced fumbles. Again, had he seen him play, he would have known.

He's not as old as he claims. I believe he may know someone that served 30 years as a cop but it wasn't him. 30 years as a cop you'd have more maturity and respect than this guy has.

Yup, RM is a kid.

Damn...I stayed home from school again today.

Think what you want you dememented idiot. Maybe you should do another investigation like when you spent days looking for Ray's suit. We all see how that worked out for ya.

Anyone REALLY in his 50's - as he claims to be (30 years as a cop + 18 when you graduate HS) would have seen L.T. play ball, and would have remembered.

didn't spend 30 years as a cop....I see you are again sumising and again....DEAD WRONG

Now...how bout that post you claim I made saying that LT never won a ring....still waiting for you to EXPOSE me.

 He's been exposed as a child.

Is that better or worse than you as an IDIOT?

I'm not a big stat girl, I never have been.

you're not even a girl.

You still to this day have not said WHY you think that Dick and LT are better than Ray...other than your normal....BECAUSE I SAID SO.

and I see that Larry Lava is back again with his large can of gasoline.....His norm

Because I love the sport of football that much. I don't need anyone to explain to me how great that guy was or why he's stil the yardstick by which LB's are measured today. Anyone that does is just a puppy.

Becuase you CAN'T. It's that simple. You run your big fat mouth on here TROLLING from thread to thread without one ounce of football knowledge but yet stake claim to what everyone else doesn't know. You are one of those that runs around saying.....I know but you don't...but yet can't explain what you know...and if someone posts something that other say is wrong you are the first to pounce claiming that YOU exposed them. you are utterly PATHETIC. 

That's what you do......you can't help it...the medication is not working, it's too weak. Dr. Quackenbush needs to prescribe something a little stronger.

Anyone with an ounce of football knowledge and a modicum of self-respect, should feel like an utter fool putting out such trash.

Great post's by ZERO and KING............



Lets see what Raven has to say about this CBS Link to Ray Lewis......      



Report: Ray Lewis denies SI allegation on PED use







    

.   

I never saw Butkus play live, but I've heard of this thing called Youtube.  I remember seeing highlights of Butkus pulverizing opposing QBs, but to be sure, I took 2 minutes and looked up "Butkus sacks".  Low and behold, there was actual footage showing Butkus absolutely destroying QBs (and RBs, and OLinemen, and his teammates, and old ladies and puppies).  Same holds true for LT.  50 some-odd strips, all nicely presented in a 5 minute vid.  Why not take a few minutes and get educated.  Again, the site is called "YouTube".

Butkus had numerous sacks.  But does anyone on these boards realize that he ISN'T credited with any because when Butkus played, it was NOT an official stat.

Had it been at the time, Deacon Jones would probably be a runaway leader in the category, but although Deacon Jones coined the phrase "sack" he isn't credited with any either because it wasn't an official statistic until 1982 or 1983.

For someone to look up a statistic and say Butkus never had any sacks more than likely just doesn't realize it because he's (A) to young to know and/or (B) not willing to do the research necessary to validate his assertion.

Let it go Trayne.

I think if there is anything we can get from the posts by raven is that when proven wrong he will try to distract and twist from what is being pointed out to him. Lets hope he learns from his mistakes here and researches his info more.

<p> HEY NITEMARE!!! You said, quoted a poster and gave a rebuttal and closed with, "Let it go, Trayne". Here's your problem. The quote in question was NOT from me. I never said those things about Butkus and youtube and what not. So how about you get the poster right before you shoot your mouth off. Now, let's see you weasel your way out of this one.</p>

So how about you get the poster right before you shoot your mouth off. Now, let's see you weasel your way out of this one

Pot meet Kettle....would that be under the same catagory as you claiming I said that LT NEVER won a ring and still haven't posted where I said it?

Thought so......hypocrit.