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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonJanuary 31, 2013 8:19 pm
All in all I feel that with the addition of Morse and Morales + the aging of a young roster + the second half improvement this team could win 85-90 games.
---------------------------- Sounds good in theory, but the problem is that the only way Morse and Morales will be around for the second half of the season is if they are on the DL. If they are healthy, Morse will be probably be on the Yankees and Morales will probably be on the Rangers. There is a reason why their new three lineup acquisitions are all in their walk year. It gives Jack the perfect excuse to dump them in July. |
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonJanuary 31, 2013 8:23 pm
Despite the fact that the trades for Kendrys Morales and Mike Morse seem to not be talked about that much (That or maybe I've just been so busy lately I don't really hear about it) I think that these are two HUGE additions.
------------------- I agree, but they are rentals, and if the Angels and Rangers play the way they are capable of playing, the Mariners will be so far back in July that there will be no point in keeping Morse and Morales. Nor Shoppach nor Ibanez. Any player in his walk year, who has mnarket value, will be gone. We just may witness one of the biggest July fire sales we have seen in recent Mariner history. |
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonJanuary 31, 2013 10:30 pm
Come on now, don't look at it as rentals. It is going for broke as the M's would say. Think of the quandry the M's would be in if they are hanging around come July, would Jack still be a shopper or would he offer that bat sh*t crazy deal he offered Arizona for another rental player?
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonJanuary 31, 2013 11:01 pm
No comment. I am just going to allow you to dream your dream.
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 2, 2013 8:48 pm
I agree, but they are rentals, and if the Angels and Rangers play the way they are capable of playing, the Mariners will be so far back in July that there will be no point in keeping Morse and Morales. Nor Shoppach nor Ibanez. Any player in his walk year, who has mnarket value, will be gone.I don't think that Mike Morse and Morales will be trade bait because if they play well enough for anyone to want them I think the Mariners will have a winning record and I can't imagine Z would trade them away if we have a winning record. No comment. I am just going to allow you to dream your dream.Haha I expected about as much from you Arizona. I wouldn't call it a "dream" though, I just simply think they will be competitive. I would not bet my house on it but I think they have a pretty decent shot at it. Plus I'd rather shower myself in false optimism than to be all sad about the upcoming season you know? The Mariners have added more this offseason than they have in a long time. How did I get brought into this? I haven't made any predictions at this point and am waiting to see if they add a veteran starter at this point. I do believe that they are better than last year and I am not convinced they will dump Morales or Morse at the deadline. Granted, if they are out of it they should, but don't see how that has any bearing. For the record, last year I said the Mariners would be about a .500 team...the ended up a little short but not drastically. As we sit right now, I think we are roughly a .500 team again if the young guys continue to improve. At no point have I said we were going to the playoffs or competing for the division in the past two years.Lol don't get worked up kaehlaone I'm just poking fun at you. |
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 2, 2013 11:22 pm
I agree, but they are rentals, and if the Angels and Rangers play the way they are capable of playing, the Mariners will be so far back in July that there will be no point in keeping Morse and Morales. Nor Shoppach nor Ibanez. Any player in his walk year, who has mnarket value, will be gone.I don't think that Mike Morse and Morales will be trade bait because if they play well enough for anyone to want them I think the Mariners will have a winning record and I can't imagine Z would trade them away if we have a winning record. ------------------- I don't think there is any doubt that the offense is imnproved. Morse and Morales could hit well enough to have trade value, but that does not necessariluy mean the team will be better. Pitching has taken a hit and dfense as taken a pretty big hit too. They've shifted their strengths (if you want to call it that) around, but overall, they have really improved much at all. |
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 3, 2013 2:17 am
I don't think there is any doubt that the offense is imnproved. Morse and Morales could hit well enough to have trade value, but that does not necessariluy mean the team will be better. Pitching has taken a hit and dfense as taken a pretty big hit too. They've shifted their strengths (if you want to call it that) around, but overall, they have really improved much at all.Well pitching has taken a hit by losing Vargas but I feel like the Mariners will find a decent replacement. The past few years for whatever reason the Mariners have seemed to find servicable starters rather well. Although I don't see how defense has really taken much of a considerable hit. I think losing Vargas and John Jaso was like taking a step and a half back, but by gaining Morales and Morse it is like taking 4 steps forward so to speak. |
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 3, 2013 12:11 pm
I don't think losing Vargas is a big deal, outside of replacing his innings, which I think they will do. I also don't buy into the "projected" rotations put out there by the writers. There really is little chance of Noesi being in the rotation IMO. In fact, I would think Hultzen would be more apt to start in the rotation than Noesi. In the end I still think we bring in a veteran arm in the next week or so.
As far as our defense taking a step back, I don't really see that. Jaso is an avergevdefensive catcher, as are the guys still here. Morse's UZR's in the outfield are pretty good and he's unlikely to be as bad or worse than Peguero, Thames, and Carp have been. All other positions are equal to last year on defense.
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonJanuary 31, 2013 11:49 pm
I'm with the optimist on this one, but its only because there's nothing left inside of me to continue being pessimistic. We've added bats, moved the fences, gained experience with the kids, and still have Felix........we have to be better, right? I'm going with it, whether it works or not we'll see. Go M's!
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 1, 2013 11:50 am
How did I get brought into this? I haven't made any predictions at this point and am waiting to see if they add a veteran starter at this point. I do believe that they are better than last year and I am not convinced they will dump Morales or Morse at the deadline. Granted, if they are out of it they should, but don't see how that has any bearing. For the record, last year I said the Mariners would be about a .500 team...the ended up a little short but not drastically. As we sit right now, I think we are roughly a .500 team again if the young guys continue to improve. At no point have I said we were going to the playoffs or competing for the division in the past two years.
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 1, 2013 4:47 pm
The pitching is going to be horrific, unless Hultzen, and/or Paxton pitch good enough to make the team out of ST. Which doesn't really bode well for an offense that will score between 650 and 700 runs. Felix - stud, Iuakuma - decent but might struggle with the new fences, Erasmo Ramirez - see Iuakuma, Noesi - sucks so bad I can't even describe it, no words for it, Beaven - see Noesi, only a tad bit better.
Point being, after Felix we have 4 pitchers who are best served as 4's, and 5's, if not long men, and in the cases of Beavan, and Noesi, minor league depth. It's our pitching, not our offense that worries me the most. We might be best served to start the entire "Big 3" in the big league rotation to start the season, even though there is no chance of that happening. They would at least provide some hope, and at times better performances than the roster filler we have after Felix. |
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 1, 2013 11:56 pm
From what I saw of Hultzen from last year is that he needs to start the season in the minors.
The M's don't need to have a great staff, they just need to continue to play solid defense. Having a great defense around you allows for a serviceable MLB pitcher to get the confidence to pitch average or an average MLB pitcher to be above average. Just as a hitter needs confidence that if he doesn't get the job done at the plate through a slump someone else can pick him up. |
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 2, 2013 12:46 pm
Somebody explain to me what is so different from our pitching staff last year that would make us an absolute horror this year? Is losing Vargas the end all that will spiral us out of control? We lost so many 1-2 run games last year that the addition of a few bats should hopefully make up for it. Vargas leaving isn't near the same worth that Morales can bring with his bat. I don't get the sky is falling mentality with this pitching staff, the M's sky fell a long time ago.
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 2, 2013 1:25 pm
If the old adage of pitching wins games, then it is as bad as made out to be. You took your winningest pitcher who also threw the 2nd most innings and are replacing him with what? Losing Vargas moves each pitcher up a spot in the rotation which is more impactful then most people realize. The pressure of being a #2 and so on is greater, your opposing pitcher is greater, and the ability, or inability, to keep a streak alive following a Felix game can ruin a pitcher.
Compare that to what Morales brings versus what he replaces, the addition isn't nearly as great. Morales will not play all or maybe a high percentage of his schedules games unlike what Vargas has done over his career. Morales impact will be less due to park and lineup changes. The other big issue of course is that lost innings by Vargas's replacement means more stress on the bullpen. Somebody always says you have to give talent to get talent, but teams in the basement don't gain ground with that method. Using free agency and dealing unproven minor leaguers is their best chance of gaining ground. And yes you can lose a valuable future piece like Choo, Cabrera, and/or Jones, but that is when your GM makes his money. Knowing what to keep and what to deal is what gets GM's into the HOF. Jack is not going into the HOF. |
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 2, 2013 1:31 pm
The biggest thing in losing Vargas is the innings. It is going to ruin the bullpen if you have Felix and 4 guys who go 5 innings. Felix already asked to throw a ton of innings bit when he goes out the bullpen will essentially be shot. Either that or some pitchers are going to be sacrificial lambs and not be able to be pulled when they nerd to.
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 2, 2013 6:52 pm
The biggest thing in losing Vargas is the inningsAnd the team leading 14 wins.  |
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 2, 2013 11:57 pm
And the team leading 14 wins.
Haha, that goes with out saying. Again too lazy to look up the numbers but I'm guessing even in his losses he still tossed a ton of innings that saved the bullpen. Unless they are so comfortable with their offense they will keep 13 pitchers now? |
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 3, 2013 12:35 am
Good point.
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 2, 2013 1:31 pm
Somebody explain to me what is so different from our pitching staff last year that would make us an absolute horror this year?
------------------- 2012: Felix, Vargas (217 IPs, 6.5 IPs/start), Beavan, Millwood (6.0 IPs per start, 4.25 ERA), Iwakuma 2013: Felix, Iwakuma (16 career starts), Beavan (41 career starts), Noesi (20 career starts), Rameriz (8 career starts) The problem is the 2013 rotation's inexperience. After Felix, the other four guys in the current rotation have a combined total of 85 starts. They are greener than St Patrick's Day. With a green rotation, you never know what to expect and the pressure is going to be on Felix more in 2013 than ever before. |
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I actually have a bit of optimism for this seasonFebruary 2, 2013 7:04 pm
2012:
Felix 21.1 Vargas 19.1 Iwakuma 17.8 Beavan 17.6 Millwood 17.3 Average outs per game. Since the other 4 are still in the rotation, the pitcher-to-be-named-later will be the guy replacing Vargas's 19.1 outs per game for 33 games. Those are big numbers to replace with a guy that isn't currently here and 10 days away from S.T. |
