Happy 40th Anniversary!

Plus I texted my cousin who is medical school and she agrees with me and her textbook agrees as well, so boom!

Plus I texted my cousin who is medical school and she agrees with me and her textbook agrees as well, so boom!

I texted my cousin and she said you and your cousin are retarded.

All of which is entirely unprovable and pointless to the conversation...

Why don't you quote some of those books, since you're claiming they are your sources, rather than just give us some other guy's version of what they say?

It's not a source when you can't even post a single word actually in those sources...

I texted my cousin and she said you and your cousin are retarded.

All of which is entirely unprovable and pointless to the conversation...

Why don't you quote some of those books, since you're claiming they are your sources, rather than just give us some other guy's version of what they say?

It's not a source when you can't even post a single word actually in those sources...

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Lighten up. Be more like me.

This anniversary sure doesn't seem too happy...

Lighten up. Be more like me

Lol.  I thought my use of "retarded" was sufficiently light...

No...?

Well, I'll work on that...

Zygotes=sperm=skin cells=dead bodies. All have genetic makeup of a person and none of them are sentient thus they all should have the same rights. Being "alive" and being "sentient" are two different things and I have yet to see any proof that zygotes are people.

I'm not going to say that women don't have the right to abortion. But using it as birth control is bogus.
I'm not against abortion, so much as for some responsible decision making so that unwanted pregnancies don't happen. Women have the right, but it's distasteful, unless there's a risk to the mother's health for some reason. 

I tend to agree here. 

Steelers=sb,

Your avatar is so completely baffling, it's awesome. 

"Development of the embryo begins at Stage 1 when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote."
[England, Marjorie A. Life Before Birth. 2nd ed. England: Mosby-Wolfe, 1996, p.31]

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"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception).
"Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being."
[Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]

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"Embryo: the developing organism from the time of fertilization until significant differentiation has occurred, when the organism becomes known as a fetus."
[Cloning Human Beings. Report and Recommendations of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission. Rockville, MD: GPO, 1997, Appendix-2.]

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"Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus."
[Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146]

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"Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term 'embryo' is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy."
[Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160]

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"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]

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"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]

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"I would say that among most scientists, the word 'embryo' includes the time from after fertilization..."
[Dr. John Eppig, Senior Staff Scientist, Jackson Laboratory (Bar Harbor, Maine) and Member of the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 31]

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"The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Sadler, T.W. Langman's Medical Embryology. 7th edition. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins 1995, p. 3]

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"The question came up of what is an embryo, when does an embryo exist, when does it occur. I think, as you know, that in development, life is a continuum.... But I think one of the useful definitions that has come out, especially from Germany, has been the stage at which these two nuclei [from sperm and egg] come together and the membranes between the two break down."
[Jonathan Van Blerkom of University of Colorado, expert witness on human embryology before the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 63]

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"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]

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"The chromosomes of the oocyte and sperm are...respectively enclosed within female and male pronuclei. These pronuclei fuse with each other to produce the single, diploid, 2N nucleus of the fertilized zygote. This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."
[Larsen, William J. Human Embryology. 2nd edition. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1997, p. 17]

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"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."
[O'Rahilly, Ronan and Müller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists "pre-embryo" among "discarded and replaced terms" in modern embryology, describing it as "ill-defined and inaccurate" (p. 12}]

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"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."
[Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]

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"[A]nimal biologists use the term embryo to describe the single cell stage, the two-cell stage, and all subsequent stages up until a time when recognizable humanlike limbs and facial features begin to appear between six to eight weeks after fertilization....
"[A] number of specialists working in the field of human reproduction have suggested that we stop using the word embryo to describe the developing entity that exists for the first two weeks after fertilization. In its place, they proposed the term pre-embryo....
"I'll let you in on a secret. The term pre-embryo has been embraced wholeheartedly by IVF practitioners for reasons that are political, not scientific. The new term is used to provide the illusion that there is something profoundly different between what we nonmedical biologists still call a six-day-old embryo and what we and everyone else call a sixteen-day-old embryo.
"The term pre-embryo is useful in the political arena -- where decisions are made about whether to allow early embryo (now called pre-embryo) experimentation -- as well as in the confines of a doctor's office, where it can be used to allay moral concerns that might be expressed by IVF patients. 'Don't worry,' a doctor might say, 'it's only pre-embryos that we're manipulating or freezing. They won't turn into real human embryos until after we've put them back into your body.'"
[Silver, Lee M. Remaking Eden: Cloning and Beyond in a Brave New World. New York: Avon Books, 1997, p. 39]

^ and none of those quips say that a zygote is a "person." 

and none of those quips say that a zygote is a "person." 

"human development" = "person"

"human development" = "person"

Inaccurate. They're beginning the process of becoming a human but are still as sentient as a bunch of skin cells and not a person.

Zygotes, embryos, fetuses are all human.  This has been settled by science.  If you want to argue the political definition of what a "person" is then thats fine, just understand that it is a separate issue.

Zygotes, embryos, fetuses are all human. 

All = human, or all of humans?  Because there is a massive difference.

This has been settled by science. 

That is blatently false.  Whether or not you agree with them, there are plenty of scientists who disagree with what you are claiming.  Just because you refuse to acknowledge or post their material doesn't mean they don't exist, or that differing views - on the science - aren't out there.

Frankly, I find the debate over when life begins to be a tiresome, rather pointless conversation.  Is anyone here going to change their mind on abortion based on the science?  Whether or not a zygote is classified as a human by science isn't going to change my opinion on abortion - and the same goes for you, if you've proven anything, it's that.

If you want to argue the political definition of what a "person" is then thats fine, just understand that it is a separate issue.

Well, you should probably keep all this science talk out of the conversation then, seeing as abortion is a legal matter, not a scientific one.

Zygotes, embryos, fetuses are all human.  This has been settled by science.  If you want to argue the political definition of what a "person" is then thats fine, just understand that it is a separate issue.

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Labs all over the world (except in Red States) are growing lines of human cells in culture. These cell cultures are immortal (until the techs stop caring for them). Are the flasks full of humans?

Hey Revan,

I'm working on a considerable bowel movement.  On Monday, I made the mistake of eating a burrito from a Chipotle knock-off.  And I had a big bowl of bran cereal yesterday.  Is the big, brown bollus travelling down my colon a piece of "human development" ?

Is the big, brown bollus travelling down my colon a piece of "human development" ?

It depends, is that "brown bollus" going to develop into a cleveland steamer?  If it is then it is human development, but if it isn't then its not.

"human development" = "person"

Nope. 

That would mean that each new developing cell in the human body is a "person." 

PackJason3 wrote:

^ and none of those quips say that a zygote is a "person." 

Meh.  Could be worse.  He could be using bible quotes...

^ and none of those quips say that a zygote is a "person."  

Beat me too it. Closest they came was development of a human, but not an actual human.

Your avatar is so completely baffling, it's awesome.  

I agree, no idea what is going on yet awesome.

I agree, no idea what is going on yet awesome.

Her eyes are bigger than her _____ . 

Beat me too it. Closest they came was development of a human, but not an actual human.

Humans are in constant development...even now you are developing.

Humans are in constant development...even now you are developing.

But I'm not a zygote. 

I'm going to go find MasterAgain to wise you chumps up.

But I'm not a zygote. 

If you were a zygote then you would be a zygote on the bottom of my shoe :)

What if your name was zygote?

What if your name was zygote?

Then you'd have a zygote with a name. 

Then you'd have a zygote with a name. 

Never mind, I misread the post. 

Humans are in constant development...even now you are developing.

Except I am a sentient being.

Genetically they are.

So are skin cells and dead bodies.

Scientifically the answer is yes, politically, in America right now, the answer is no, but should be yes.

Science has yet to call them full fledged humans.

Why is it that science is right with abortion, yet when we try arguing to disprove religious theories it is wrong?

What if your name was zygote?

Is this a white flag?