Browns should try to land D Revis

As for my opinion on Rivers "value", as stated he is a top ten QB perennially. What we have seen in the past to move up in the draft just for the hopes of someone like that, indicates his value is at the very least a first and second round draft pick...Which for the record, I would gladly give for him...

I should also state though, that I would want him to teach Weeds..Not get rid of Weeden if the deal was made...He is after all a couple of years older than Weeden and been taking NFL hits MUCH longer...

Again, this is hypothetically speaking because I don't believe he will be available at all..

Maybe I'm in the minority on this, but I think Phillip Rivers' value has dropped dramatically in the last couple seasons.  I don't see the same guy from 4 or 5 years ago, that's for sure.  I mean, yeah, he still likes to run his mouth quite a bit, but now he doesn't back it up like he used to....I wouldn't trade for him.  Similiarly to Carson Palmer, I see him on the rapid decline.

I realize that Weeden hasn't proven himself, and we really don't know what we have with him, but I am excited to see what he can do in Norv Turner's system.  Irish couldn't have said it better..."Weeds was set up to fail miserably".   I'm certainly not opposed to bringing in some competition for him.  I'd just rather it be someone on the upswing.  We went through something similiar already with the Jake Delhomme debacle...

I know Dvl...and i didn't mean that post to sound like I was attacking...Reading it back, I understand why you might have, apologies there.

No worries my friend, I apologize as well if my response was too strong.  

set him up to fail miserably.

Agree 100%.  

Maybe I'm in the minority on this, but I think Phillip Rivers' value has dropped dramatically in the last couple seasons.  I don't see the same guy from 4 or 5 years ago, that's for sure. 

I am not so sure TOPDAWG.  How much do we have to take in account how poor his OL is, the lack of a healthy consistant running game, and the fact that AJ Smith refused to pay for talent?  I am not a Rivers apologist, though I am starting to sound like a fan and a proponant...  hmm maybe we shoud talk about bowling instead.  

lol!  No way man...We are Browns fans...It's a law that the QB position is all we can talk about.

Maybe your right about the team that surrounds Rivers.  IDK...Maybe I'm delusional, but it just seems like his decision making isn't what it once was.  Though the same can be said for any QB when he's gettin hit all over the place...

Maybe I just feel that Weeds can be every bit as good as Rivers, so therefore why trade picks away for him?   Yeah, i'll go with that.

I just dont get the Shurmur offense made Weeden fail.....he threw the ball down the field, he ran screen passes, he ran crossing patterns, he utilized the TE, he ran some trick plays, etc.  What else did u want form the guy?  U want him to throw 15-20 yds every play cause Weeden has a strong arm? Hell, if he did that, his comp % may be about 50%.  Shurmur is taking way too much blame and Weeden is getting off easy IMO. 

We know that you don't get it stopper....you can be in that .0000001% of Browns fans that liked Shurmur.  Hows that?  Fair enough?  Good....The rest of us are happy he's gone.  

Damn!  He got me.  I can't get away from this same tired old debate....Every time I think I'm out, he pulls me back in! lol!<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />  

I just dont get the Shurmur offense made Weeden fail.....he threw the ball down the field, he ran screen passes, he ran crossing patterns, he utilized the TE, he ran some trick plays, etc.  What else did u want form the guy?  U want him to throw 15-20 yds every play cause Weeden has a strong arm? Hell, if he did that, his comp % may be about 50%.  Shurmur is taking way too much blame and Weeden is getting off easy IMO. 

Here is the problem Stopper...

Plays came in with about 7-12 seconds left on the play clock...The offense was at the line of scrimmage with about 5-7 seconds left on the play clock, so no time for adjustment...

Then the play calling itself called for a relief receiver (RB, slot or TE) 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage, 1-2 routes run between 3-10 yards and another run between 5-20 yards for the most part{to stretch the field}, every once in a while he sends one receiver on a fly route either down the seam or down the sideline...this is his idea of stretching the field to keep them honest.

The difference between the WCO and what Turner/Chud will bring is that there will be the relief go to, then you have a single route being run between 3-15 yards and two routes being run between 10-40 yards on almost every pass play...with many plays having a guy at 15-30 and another at 25-50 yards...THIS ACTUALLY stretches the field which gives the QB open receivers...The only bad thing here is pass protection. Well, we have one of the better pass protecting O-lines in the league, even if they had a little to be desired in run blocking...This new offense should work wonders for Weeds, not to mention, it is a faster pace offense, so he will have the play call with 15-20 seconds on the play clock to make those line reads and see what the defense is giving him...

And there were many times where maybe the 1st option was taken away(good defenses will do that) and he just checked the ball down....cant put that on Shurmur.  If thats the case, how come many on here after the Pitt game were saying mayb we have something in Lewis?  Same offense, same play caller, but different QB.  Maybe its the QB and not the scheme/play calling.

how come many on here after the Pitt game were saying mayb we have something in Lewis?  Same offense, same play caller

Same crappy offense...They are Browns fans stopper..Always looking for the "good" in the unknown, much like me with Weeden admittadly.

On that day he was 22of32 for 212 yards a TD and an INT...He didn't light it up..He simply didn't implode either.

Im not trying to make Shurmur all world, but I think he gets too much blame....I know people were on here saying if Little catches the ball vs Balt Browns win, if Gordon catches that ball vs Indy Browns win....we all know "if" is a huge word, but sometimes its on the players and not the coaches.

but I think he gets too much blame....I know people were on here saying if Little catches the ball vs Balt Browns win, if Gordon catches that ball vs Indy Browns win....we all know "if" is a huge word, but sometimes its on the players and not the coaches.

I keep telling myself I am going to ignore you, yet I can't help myself...

We will find out..I just don't think he gets enough of the blame...The difference between you and I, is that I think they were in games despite Shurmur's inadaquacy as coach. Why play the game in order to have a chance at the end to win it? Why not play the game to make the other team try to win it in the end? The conservative nature of these past 2 years were disheartening.

Put your team in position to dominate, not get by to the end and see what happens. More times than not, it will be on the other team to make something great happen in order to "pull out" the win...

.I know people were on here saying if Little catches the ball vs Balt Browns win, if Gordon catches that ball vs Indy Browns win....we all know "if" is a huge word, but sometimes its on the players and not the coaches.

Uhm...wow. Good post.  I agree 100%....That being said, I still think Shurmur was awful.  

When I watch Weeden play, I see a potential.  Somewhere in there is a very good QB.  I admit, we've only seen flashes. We all know he's got the big arm that automatically forces the defense to cover all parts of the field.  You can't just load up and bring the house at him every play....I'm just excited to see what innovative offensive minded coaches like Chud and Norv can do with Weeden.  Let him do what he does best.  Speed up the tempo is the main thing. Shurmur was such an idiot when it came to that.  All those ridiculous personel subs on every play, it just sabotaged any chance for Weeden to find his rhythem.   And I think rhythem is everything for an effective offense....I think Irish pointed out that we were always late getting the play in from the sideline.  It was a nightmare for any QB, let alone a rookie...

Gordon and Little improved dramatically last year as the season went along....Benjamin is a big play just waiting to happen.....Trent Richardson will be back to 100% health.  The O-line is solid....All we need IMO is a much better offensive system.  One that caters to the strengths of Brandon Weeden.  It will make a world of difference....

 

I agree, but only time will tell....people were gaga over Chud after 07 and defenses adjusted and the offense looked real bad in 08....Anderson had a big arm just like Weeden, but couldnt do anything in 08. 

There's no comparison between DA and Weeds.  Anderson can't throw a freakin screen pass without bouncing it in....DA had about 6 good games that year.  Once defenses adjusted and took away those deep seam routes, he had nothin....He was so bad after that, even I was calling for them to put Quinn back in. lol!   

 

There's no comparison between DA and Weeds.  Anderson can't throw a freakin screen pass without bouncing it in....DA had about 6 good games that year.  Once defenses adjusted and took away those deep seam routes, he had nothin....He was so bad after that, even I was calling for them to put Quinn back in. lol!  

I don't know, TD. I think the comparisons are warranted. Neither is all that smart, nor strikes me as a leader. And Weeds was not all that impressive on the screens, either. He just got his passes batted down instead of throwing them in the dirt. Same result.

To me, whenever you hear "big arm" as a QB's best attribute, especially in the first round, this is a bad sign. Think Russel, Klingler, Boller, Carr to name a few.

I couldn't disagree more gold88.  Derek Anderson threw 56 interceptions at Oregon State!     There's a reason why he didn't get picked until the 6th round.  Just because he has a strong arm, doesn't make him equal to Brandon Weeden. 

DA proved time and again that he's not that bright.  Most notably at the MNF presser when he was a Cardinal. I still laugh when I think of that infamous meltdown.  "Do you think I wanted to play horrible and embarrass myself on national television??!! lol!   The only time I've ever heard Weeden's intelligence come into question is from you and your co-BW bashers...Obviously you've made up your mind about him, and now your just throwin chit to see if it sticks...

BTW; For every Russell, Klingler, Boller and Carr you want to bring up,  I'll give you a Favre, Rodgers, Manning and Aikman....I think we all know that it takes more than a good arm to be a great NFL QB......

 

I couldn't disagree more gold88.  Derek Anderson threw 56 interceptions at Oregon State!     There's a reason why he didn't get picked until the 6th round.  Just because he has a strong arm, doesn't make him equal to Brandon Weeden.

DA proved time and again that he's not that bright.  Most notably at the MNF presser when he was a Cardinal. I still laugh when I think of that infamous meltdown. "Do you think I wanted to play horrible and embarrass myself on national television??!! lol!   The only time I've ever heard Weeden's intelligence come into question is from you and your co-BW bashers...Obviously you've made up your mind about him, and now your just throwin chit to see if it sticks...

Then I guess I'll ask you, TD, what were your thoughts when he slid 8 yards behind the line while running to the sideline and on more than one occasion throw the ball away on 4th down (when an INT is actually better than an incompletion?

Does the guy really strike you as a leader?   

BTW; For every Russell, Klingler, Boller and Carr you want to bring up,  I'll give you a Favre, Rodgers, Manning and Aikman....I think we all know that it takes more than a good arm to be a great NFL QB......

And I think you just made my point for me. The guys I mentioned all came into the league with their main attribute being "big arm". That was not the case with the other guys, and Favre is not in the discussion as I said when it comes to 1st rounders. 

All this being said, I hope Weeds proves me wrong and flourishes in another system. 

and around and around we go....


I think Weeds will prove you wrong.  I haven't made up my mind on how good of a leader Brandon Weeden is. Though in comparison to Anderson (Gomer Pyle) he's at least a 1 star General....   Unfortunately, it's my feeling that the situation (Shurmur factor) that he was thrown into left us with more questions than answers, and I want to see what he can do with a legit coaching staff and offensive philosophy in place...If he falls flat under the guidance of Norv and Chud, I'll be the first guy screaming fot them to get him out....


 And I think you just made my point for me. The guys I mentioned all came into the league with their main attribute being "big arm". That was not the case with the other guys, and Favre is not in the discussion as I said when it comes to 1st rounders. 


Made your point for you?  lol!  Not even close my friend....Fine, you don't want Favre in there, just swap him out for Elway....And luckily for all the QB's I mentioned, judgement wasn't passed on them after their freakin rookie season...Because just like BW, they ALL struggled....


Cue Sam with his "different era" arguement in 3...2...1  (hopefully he comes with more absurd stats.) 

one star General  =  Brigadier General......couldn't think of it for the life of me.  Sounds better than "one star" though, doesn't it?

TD . . .

Be My Little General.

1 star = Brigadier General

2 stars = Major General

3 stars = Lieutenant General

4 stars = (plain old) General.


Amazing what one can learn on here! 

And I think you just made my point for me. The guys I mentioned all came into the league with their main attribute being "big arm". That was not the case with the other guys, and Favre is not in the discussion as I said when it comes to 1st rounders.


Made your point for you?  lol!  Not even close my friend....Fine, you don't want Favre in there, just swap him out for Elway....And luckily for all the QB's I mentioned, judgement wasn't passed on them after their freakin rookie season...Because just like BW, they ALL struggled....


Cue Sam with his "different era" arguement in 3...2...1  (hopefully he comes with more absurd stats.) 

Are you even paying attention here? Elway was not mentioned as a "big arm" guy. He could throw, yes, but he also was known as an athlete, as well. When it came to the guys I mentioned (Carr, Russell, Weeden, Klingler, Boller) the only positive you ever really heard about them was big arm.

Not the case with those you mentioned (Elway, Aikman, Rodgers, etc.)

Are you really disputing this?     

I get you have a mancrush on Weeden, but this doesn't mean he'll fail (as the others have), only that big arm guys (when that's how they are referred to) often do fail......and they do.       

You guys are arguing semantics...first Elway wasn't known as a "big arm", he was litterally known as "the kid with the golden arm". And you are right about Aikman and Rodgdrs, neither were considered the strongest arm of their draft class, which is why a WCO team drafted Rodgers....most importantli IN THIS CONVERSATION, since none of these guys play(ed) for the Brown's...Sweden wasn't known only as a strong arm...he was considered a QB that could make every throw and a leader on and off the field due to his maturity(which we all classify as age...or old). Weeden was 72% accurate in college while slinging the ball down field. He needs a bigger window than Shurmurs offense gave the receivers. Hopefully the new one will be better and so will he.

 

I hate posting from my phone...between auto correct and run ons...

Obviously, he's made up his mind.  He's lumped Weeds in with a bunch of first round busts.  Nevermind the fact that those guys were all given more than 1 season before judgement was passed....Maybe Weeden will be a bust.  I don't know how many times I have to freakin say it.  I just want to see how he does in year 2, under (what I consider) a MUCH better coaching staff...And thats the same way most rational people feel...Shurmur was a dolt, and Weeds was set up to fail.  I believe that 100%.  And I don't care what these shlepps say....

When goldy says Elway was not known as a "big arm" guy, he loses all credibility as far as I'm concerned....He must not even know who John Elway is...A stronger NFL passing arm never existed!  I think he expects me to be a mind reader or something.  In my world, if you are good enough to play football at the NFL level, or even get drafted and get a shot at it, you are considered atheletic...Sorry I don't have the textbook gold definition of "Athelete" or "strong arm QB".  lol!   He listed some high draft pick fails, so I listed some high draft pick success stories....Yes. The guys I listed had the right mental make-up to be successful at the most demanding position in all of sports.  Hey, it's not for everybody...It's a tough league.

 I don't need to pull all the old scouting reports to know that there was other positive things mentioned about the QB's goldy listed than just, "He's got a big arm"....Common sense tells ya that.  You don't get drafted that high just on strong arm alone.  Did they flop? Yes. But that doesn't mean that "arm strength" was the ONLY thing they brought to the table...


 

 he’s got pretty good speed and he’s 6’7″ and weighs like 270 pounds. Russell also has very good accuracy completing 68 percent of his passes. He threw 30 touchdowns in the SEC which is the toughest conference in the NCAA.”

“He has a rocket arm, some scouts even say he has the strongest arm in the history of football. He is also very athletic for his size. He can also deliver the ball quicker than most NFL quarterbacks.”



Oh what the heck. I was bored.  So I picked the guy that most consider to be the biggest bust in NFL history,  JaMarcus Russell.  This was just one pre draft scouting report.  Does it mention "big arm".  Of course it does.  But as you can see, it also mentions a couple other attributes...I agree that the arm strength was his biggest asset, but lets not pretent it was the ONLY thing mentioned.

Obviously, he proved to the world that he was a mental midget, and that his decision making was awful...He decided codeine cough syrup was more important to him than an NFL career....



 

Obviously, he's made up his mind.  He's lumped Weeds in with a bunch of first round busts.  Nevermind the fact that those guys were all given more than 1 season before judgement was passed....Maybe Weeden will be a bust.  I don't know how many times I have to freakin say it.  I just want to see how he does in year 2, under (what I consider) a MUCH better coaching staff...And thats the same way most rational people feel...Shurmur was a dolt, and Weeds was set up to fail.  I believe that 100%.  And I don't care what these shlepps say....

Look I get you have a mancrush on Weeden (not that there's anything wrong with that), but "I just don't know how many freaking times I have to say it"....I also hope he succeeds and that a new offense is what he needs to do so. I do hope I am wrong about him, I just haven't seen anything yet to convince me. 

When goldy says Elway was not known as a "big arm" guy, he loses all credibility as far as I'm concerned....He must not even know who John Elway is...A stronger NFL passing arm never existed! 

I think you need to dig a little deeper. Elway was also known as a runner/athlete, as well as having a strong arm.

  I think he expects me to be a mind reader or something.  In my world, if you are good enough to play football at the NFL level, or even get drafted and get a shot at it, you are considered atheletic...Sorry I don't have the textbook gold definition of "Athelete" or "strong arm QB".  lol! 

And, to me, this would make anyone lose all credibilty. Are you suggesting we cannot differentiate between RG3 and Weeden when it comes to athletci ability, since they are both NFL QBs?

    He listed some high draft pick fails, so I listed some high draft pick success stories....Yes. The guys I listed had the right mental make-up to be successful at the most demanding position in all of sports.  Hey, it's not for everybody...It's a tough league.

I listed guys who were known as Big Arm Guys. The guys you listed were known for other attributes other than a strong arm. Smart, accuracy, etc.  

I don't need to pull all the old scouting reports to know that there was other positive things mentioned about the QB's goldy listed than just, "He's got a big arm"....Common sense tells ya that.  You don't get drafted that high just on strong arm alone.  Did they flop? Yes. But that doesn't mean that "arm strength" was the ONLY thing they brought to the table...

I'm sure the scouting report said other things, but when one thinks of those guys before the draft and efter, it was always about the Big Arm. Those guys appear like they tend to fail more often than not.  All I'm sayin'.

And, to me, this would make anyone lose all credibilty. Are you suggesting we cannot differentiate between RG3 and Weeden when it comes to athletci ability, since they are both NFL QBs?

Athletic ability aside...are you wanting a RB or QB? His running ability definitely made him more valuable in 2012, but take that away and he most likley would have fared worse than Weeden...He was sacked 2 more times than Weeden despite attempting 124 less passes.

Athleticism is in the eyes of the beholder..No one is going to disagree RGIII is a better athlete than any other QB in the NFL...yet when it comes to helping him avoid things like sacks, he doesn't seem to fair any better than those "non-athletic" QBs. Running the football as much as he does, seems to put him in some precarious situations to sustain injuries...That may very well be how his career is defined. Of course none of us know anything about any of these new QBs careers yet....

Does it even matter?  The new regime doesnt even like Weeden...his age, not committing to him, etc is a tell tale sign he isnt the future