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C'mon Offense - ContributeFebruary 18, 2013 7:16 pm
Baseball is funny that way and I had never looked at it like that before...Those were some surprising stats, 67RS. I would have thought we would be near the bottom of the league in BA with RISP with that AAA lineup we had last year even though I remembered that Colvin was bringing in some runs. A healthy Tulo will really help defensively and will protect Cargo at the plate as well plus when he gets hot. nobody is hotter...it is really fun to watch.
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C'mon Offense - ContributeFebruary 20, 2013 12:53 pm
As we head into the new season, and looking back at last year, I think you have to remember that last year the Rockies were tied for last in the NL, and tied for last in all of MLB, in runs scored on the road. And yes, we were first by a good ways in runs scored at home, and very highly ranked in many other pffensive categories at home. But so what, I say, because other teams were scoring just as many runs or more at Coors, and would have probably put up even bigger stats than the Rockies if they played 81 games at Coors. You can't really even look at the Rockies overall offensive stats, because they are so skewed by the big home numbers. The true measure by which to compare the Rockies to other teams (and really to compare all teams to each other) is by looking at away stats -- when all teams are on the road, where they all go to the same parks and face the same opposing pitchers. And by that measure, the Rockies were last offensively.
The Rockies ERA, by comparison, was 12th of 16 NL teams in away games, and 20th of 30 MLB teams away. Compared to their 16th of 16, and 30th of 30 rankings for runs scored away, the Rockies were arguably/probably a better pitching team last year than hitting. |
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C'mon Offense - ContributeFebruary 20, 2013 7:15 pm
The only faulty thinking Iron Pig is that all the other teams had Coors Field to factor into their away stats and the Rockies didn't. So everyone else got a boost in their away BAs while the Rockies, without Coors Field in the away stats took a hit. It would be interesting to see how the Rockies measured up in away stats against all the other teams if Coors Field were removed as a factor.
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C'mon Offense - ContributeFebruary 22, 2013 12:56 pm
Thanks for the responses smf, 67RS, and dgonaz, but, respectfully, I think your're all wrong. Yeah, factoring in that other teams get to play some away games at Coors gives them a slight -- slight -- leg up on Colorado's away stats, but it's minimal because they play relatively few games at Coors. Nothing near 81 games like the Rockies. Yeah, no measure is perfect, but away stats are a lot truer measure than overall offensive stats when it comes to the Rockies. You can cite the Rockies overall offensive stats and claim that that means they were a superior, or even a better than average, offensive team last year until you are blue in the face, but it's simply not true. And the fact that the Rockies' away pitching stats last year were actually better than their away hitting stats is also something you can ignore if you want, but it's a fact, and it's hard to get around if you really think about it.
I love the Rockies and I love Coors Field, but you have to think a little differently about statistics when it comes to the Rockies and comparing them to other teams because of the undeniable fact that a lot more runs are scored at Coors than anywhere else, and especially last year. |
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C'mon Offense - ContributeFebruary 22, 2013 1:27 pm
Not to beat a dead horse, but to illustrate my point, let me give an example. Let's say every other team in MLB scores an average of 5 runs per game at home, and 5 runs per game on the road. But the Rockies score an average of 10 runs per game at Coors, and 3 runs per game on the road. And let's also say opponents score 12 runs per game at Coors. You could add up these numbers and see that Colorado averages 6.5 runs per game overall (home and away), while everyone else averages 5.0 runs per game overall, and conclude, voila!, that Colorado is the best offensive team in baseball. And, of course, you would be completely wrong.
The numbers in my example may be exaggerated a little to make my point, but when you plug in the real numbers, you basically get the same result. And you get that same result many, many years for the Rockies. And every year everyone lazily looks at the overall numbers and concludes that the Rockies are all hit and no pitch. Hey, I say that if most every year everyone is going to conclude that the Rockies are all hit and no pitch, why don't we bring back a Blake Street Bombers type line-up and actually make that true and enjoy it?! :) |
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C'mon Offense - ContributeFebruary 22, 2013 7:39 pm
I don't think you understand how much better against us opposing teams batted last season compared to the rest of the league, the numbers are high enough to actually scew the data. The NL had 144 more hits against the Rockies than the next worst team in that catagory, 88 more runs against the Rockies than the next worst team, 286 more total bases against the Rockies than the next worst team. they posted a .827 OBP against us. a .290 batting average vs a .270 for the second worst team.
To put those numbers in more perspetive the difference between us and the second worst team in total bases against us is about the same as the difference between the second worst team and the best team. with the average difference between one spot to the next being about 20-40 bases not 286. The difference in runs against us and the second worst team is 86 runs, the most difference between two places in the NL other than that is 45 (which is between the second worst team and the third worst and the average between two spots being much lower). The difference in hits against us and the secodn worst team is 144 hits, the next biggest gap batween spots is 46 with the average difference being much lower. Do you see a trend? People didn't just score on us a lot, they scored on us at a rate that made the second worst in any pitching catagory look like a team full of aces compared to us |
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C'mon Offense - ContributeFebruary 23, 2013 12:26 am
You're falling into the same trap, dgonaz. You're looking at overall pitching numbers, which, of course, include the Rockies' pitching numbers at Coors. Away from Coors, the Rockies pitchers were not last -- in fact 4 NL teams, and 10 MLB teams, had worse ERAs away from their home park. Other teams batted better against the Rockies than any other team AT COORS, not everywhere else. I don't think you get it, but you're not alone.
And away from Coors, the Rockies offense was dead last -- dead last. |
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C'mon Offense - ContributeFebruary 20, 2013 8:05 pm
The true measure by which to compare the Rockies to other teams (and really to compare all teams to each other) is by looking at away statsEvery grading system is flawed. If we look at just away stats the 2012 Mets (74-88) were a much better team than the Reds (97-65) as they scored more runs, hit for a higher average and hit more HRs on the road...and we all know that isn't so. |
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C'mon Offense - ContributeFebruary 20, 2013 8:52 pm
Away stats for any team are as unique as their home stats. No team has the exact same type of road schedule, yeah they play the same amount of games on the road but the number of games that they play against each team is different. About the closest you could get to looking at away stats would be trying to judge them stadium by stadium which is so much stats that it just flat out isn't friendly for people trying to judge a team and even then you would have teams facing X team when they just happen to have the top of their rotation pitching vs the next team that dealt with them dealt with the bottom of the rotation or an injury ridden rotation.
Bottom line there is no balanced way to look at any teams road starts. |
