Browns should try to land D Revis

No biggie....lol

I wasnt trying to name every RB....I wanted to get a mixture for ur opinion of a stud RB.....I mentioned guys that have amazing talent, but get hurt, rookies or havnt hit their stride yet.  The only guy u actually mentioned that was a stud is AP from ur paragraph.  It wasnt hard, but either way u have ur mind made up that T-Rich will b a stud so no sense going forward. 

I'm kind of mixed on where I am with TRich, showstopper. I saw some things that make me think he can be a stud RB in the NFL, but it's tough to get over the paltry ypc, and the way he hits (or doesn't hit) the holes.

As for the rib injury, I don't know what to make of it. Yes, if true, it might explain some things. However, as someone who has had fractured ribs, it's hard to imagine a guy could play RB in the NFL (or even a pee wee league) if he really had this injury.  Just taking a deep breath is quite painful (God forbid you have to sneeze). I wonder if they embellished this, a bit.

I think I agree, fractured ribs or bruised ribs?  How can any Dr allow a player w fractured ribs play such a physical sport like football.  Can u imagine a swing pass being a little high and him reaching over his head and a LB just drilling him in his ribs.....I think there is more to this fractured rib ordeal.

he would still look good paired with T Rich & a shifty change of pace back like Larod Stephens Howling of the Cardinals who is a free agent this year ..go sign LSH . He is fun to watch . has great hands and can return kicks .

Absolutely.  We don't need a "change-of-pace" back.  I have been saying that for the entire season.  If you want to keep Brandon Jackson, fine.  But if you can get a Stephens-Howling to help continue to distribute the damage on defenses while Trent Richardson catches a break or two, you have to make that move.  Almost nothing is more of an advantage to teams than being able to pound defenses into submission and keep them tired and on the field.  I think Howlings just came into a bad situation with other "stud" RBs on the roster with him.  I also don't think his contract would be out-of-line.

I think I agree, fractured ribs or bruised ribs?  How can any Dr allow a player w fractured ribs play such a physical sport like football.  Can u imagine a swing pass being a little high and him reaching over his head and a LB just drilling him in his ribs.....I think there is more to this fractured rib ordeal.

Perhaps a slight fabrication.  But QBs and other players have notoriously continued to play in games after suffering bruised ribs.  I can even think of guys like Darren McFadden and if I remember correctly Bo Jackson.  It isn't unheard of by any means.  Doctors figure if you break them they are already broken.  If they shoot 'em up I hear the pain is almost at a bare minimum.

I'm kind of mixed on where I am with TRich, showstopper. I saw some things that make me think he can be a stud RB in the NFL, but it's tough to get over the paltry ypc, and the way he hits (or doesn't hit) the holes.

DT... In my mind, Trent Richardson -- on paper -- has the potential to be the #2 running back in the NFL today.  He's *that* good.

However, 2012 really took a lot of the sheen of that prospect.  I still think he'll be pretty good, but he wasn't healthy one day in 2012 and that doesn't bode well for a guy who's going to get the rock 300+ times a season.  Also, considering that we have one of the better offensive lines in the game, it's a little alarming he completely lacked big plays and produced a well below-average YPC.

A lot of the issue was he faced a ton of nine-man fronts.  I don't have the numbers in front of me (shocker) but I think I read where only Adrian Peterson (#1 running back, #2 player in the NFL) faced more nine-man fronts all year.  Both a testament to Richardson's toughness and Weeden's continual failure.

As for the rib injury, I don't know what to make of it.

It was either overblown to try and cover a sub-par outing, or an egregious mismanagement of the player by all levels -- doctors, coaches and player personnel, the likes of which aren't normally seen in the NFL.

I don't buy it when any player talks about playing with "broken ribs". 

I'm kind of mixed on where I am with TRich, showstopper. I saw some things that make me think he can be a stud RB in the NFL, but it's tough to get over the paltry ypc, and the way he hits (or doesn't hit) the holes.

DT... In my mind, Trent Richardson -- on paper -- has the potential to be the #2 running back in the NFL today.  He's *that* good.

However, 2012 really took a lot of the sheen of that prospect.  I still think he'll be pretty good, but he wasn't healthy one day in 2012 and that doesn't bode well for a guy who's going to get the rock 300+ times a season.  Also, considering that we have one of the better offensive lines in the game, it's a little alarming he completely lacked big plays and produced a well below-average YPC.

A lot of the issue was he faced a ton of nine-man fronts.  I don't have the numbers in front of me (shocker) but I think I read where only Adrian Peterson (#1 running back, #2 player in the NFL) faced more nine-man fronts all year.  Both a testament to Richardson's toughness and Weeden's continual failure.

As for the rib injury, I don't know what to make of it.

It was either overblown to try and cover a sub-par outing, or an egregious mismanagement of the player by all levels -- doctors, coaches and player personnel, the likes of which aren't normally seen in the NFL.

I don't buy it when any player talks about playing with "broken ribs".  

And since I think we all agree the injury was overblown, I guess I'm not sure what you've seen to make you seem so sure he can be the #2 RB in the NFL. Especially "on paper" which makes him seem probably worse than he is.    


  

I guess I'm not sure what you've seen to make you seem so sure he can be the #2 RB in the NFL. Especially "on paper" which makes him seem probably worse than he is.    

DT... that's actually my point.

Trent came from the SEC (easily, the toughest collegiate division) where he was an absolute stud.  He's 233 pounds of pure muscle, runs a 4.48 and is tailor-made for the RB position.  He excelled at all facets of the game in college and I expected Adrian Peterson-esque numbers out of him Day 1.

Fast forward after limping through an injury plagued year where he didn't even hit 1,000 yards (good for 17th in the NFL) and only scored touchdowns because our "gun-slinger" QB never took shots into the endzone once the team hit the redzone.

I think playing hurt -- regardless of the extent of it -- has already shortened Trent's career.  Running backs aren't known for their longevity in the NFL, especially as teams move to a more pass-first world.  It's even tougher when you're taking the abuse week after week for a 4-12 team.  

I have no idea how Steven Jackson has done it for all these years.

Trent came from the SEC (easily, the toughest collegiate division) where he was an absolute stud.  He's 233 pounds of pure muscle, runs a 4.48 and is tailor-made for the RB position.  He excelled at all facets of the game in college and I expected Adrian Peterson-esque numbers out of him Day 1.

Mark Ingram also came from the same school as TRich, so that's probably irrelevent. Never mind the SEC, while probably the best conference, is also the most overrated conference in CFB (but that's for another discussion). TRich also ran behind one of the best O-lines in college football as well.
 

Fast forward after limping through an injury plagued year where he didn't even hit 1,000 yards (good for 17th in the NFL) and only scored touchdowns because our "gun-slinger" QB never took shots into the endzone once the team hit the redzone.
 
I think playing hurt -- regardless of the extent of it -- has already shortened Trent's career.  Running backs aren't known for their longevity in the NFL, especially as teams move to a more pass-first world.  It's even tougher when you're taking the abuse week after week for a 4-12 team. 

I have no idea how Steven Jackson has done it for all these years

I agree with most of what you say, only that I am not as convinced as you he's a top NFL RB. I definitely believe he might be, and him becoming one would not be a surprise to me. 

Like Weeds, I wonder what a new offense will do for TRich. If it helps Weeden, like most think it will, that will help Richardson. 

Browns' FO let A. Smith get away;might have been a a puzzle-piece for 2013. I believe Chiefs will show a much-improved 2013. Hmmmmmmmmm....where will Geno Smith will end up now?

Browns' FO let A. Smith get away

Of course they did...

Is this the type of post we are going to see with every free agent/trade made by other teams?

This guy did NOTHING for 5 years in the league...when many are trying to run our QBs out after one-two seasons...He put up average numbers on an outstanding football team, and now he is another one that our front office let get away...


It is going to take a heckuva lot more than Alex Smith to show a marked improvement on the Chiefs in 2013.

Geno Smith? I don't think he would have been going to KC, even if this trade didn't happen...No one likes a QB in this draft worthy a top ten pick...I know every year QBs are over drafted, and most likely will be again this year...but as at least one analyst said, Brandon Weden would have been the first QB off the board if he were in this draft...So maybe, be happy with what you DO have and hope for improvement with the new coaching staff.

IMO, Weeden is not the QB of the future for Browns. I believe many will agree on that. So, why not make a move now?

So, why not make a move now?

Who then?  

What player in FA or in the Draft that is available is the answer?  

Browns' FO let A. Smith get away;might have been a a puzzle-piece for 2013. I believe Chiefs will show a much-improved 2013. Hmmmmmmmmm....where will Geno Smith will end up now?

How did they let A.Smith get away? Seems like the Chiefs offered the 1st pick in the 2nd round, and a conditional pick that could be another 2nd rounder.

You're aware the Browns do not have a 2nd rounder, correct? So what offer would you have made to SF? 
 

So what offer would you have made to SF?

Colt McCoy?

Of course it depends on price, but Alex Smith is the best QB coming out in this draft/FA period.  This kid has been through a lot w different head coaches/OC so he was never able to settle in for a period of time.  I think Reid will do wonders w this kid and he will put up similar #'s to McNabb in his prime.  He has the same attributes as DM. 

Of course it depends on price, but Alex Smith is the best QB coming out in this draft/FA period.

Agree completely, with the caveat that Joe Flacco would not be made available.

I wanted Smith as a Brown, but #33 overall for that guy is a bit steep.  I can't say I wouldn't be willing to part with our second round pick (#38, if we still had it) if we had to get into a bidding war... but to just come right out of the gate with #33 is too much.

I think Reid will do wonders w this kid

If anyone can get something out of him (that isn't Bill Belichick), it will be Andy Reid.

Although most of me is hoping that he fails like all the crappy, second-rate QBs Reid has pawned off on teams for second round picks over the years.

---

 
We're in the extremely unenviable position of both (1) Brandon Weeden not being the answer and (2) not having an answer for not having an answer.  2013 is shaping up to be a long, long season. 

Yes I didnt mention Flacco cause I figure Balt will either get a contract done or franchise him.  I know hes a FA, but I dont think hes truly available.

2013 is shaping up to be a long, long season

not that that isn't a fairly typical Cleveland fan response....I was just wondering, how is anything taking shape at this point?   We're two months away from the draft, and free agency hasn't even started yet.... 






go Browns. 




woof

2013 is shaping up to be a long, long season

not that that isn't a fairly typical Cleveland fan response....I was just wondering, how is anything taking shape at this point?   We're two months away from the draft, and free agency hasn't even started yet....

I think he told you.....because we don't have the answer at QB, nor do we have the answer to not having the answer. This could change, of course,  but that's where we are as of now. 

oh thanks Gold...in other words, you little "negative nancies" aren't even going to give the new regime a chance before dumping your toxic worthless drivel all over them.  Gotcha. nuff said.

oh thanks Gold...in other words, you little "negative nancies" aren't even going to give the new regime a chance before dumping your toxic worthless drivel all over them.  Gotcha. nuff said.

"Toxic drivel" Seems a little harsh, TD. Toxic would imply one had no choice but to be affected. Seems clear you are able to form your own opinion. Not sure why you'd be so irked about someone else having an opinion that differs.

I have given every regime the benefit of the doubt for the most part. Only move I hated from the outset and thought had no chance to work was the hiring of Crennel. Didn't like the Shurmur hire, but figured Holmgren knew what he was doing.

No more. Now they must prove themselves before I'll blindly follow. So far, what have they done to prove themselves? I do like the OC hire. Not as sold on the DC as many seem to be. And the coach, while he might end up as the best guy for the job, was not even among their top 5 choices.

You go ahead and blindly follow, though, because they've given you so many reasons to. Nuff said.      

 

All that said, TD, I hope they have an outstanding free agency "season" and nail the draft and make us all believers.

well thats just it gold....This isn't the usual "new regime"....We have a new owner. That SHOULD change the mindset a bit... It would just be nice if we could see how this thing plays out before spewing the typical negative Cleveland fan bullchit.   I know it's difficult for some people to accept, but Jimmy Haslam and company didn't have anything to do with the last 13 years of Cleveland Browns hell...Obviously, thats of little consequence to the typically bitter fan base.....I just see it for what it is.  And it's WAY to soon for statements like "this is shaping up to be a long long season"....But hey, you want to dump all over this group before they get started, that's up to you....For all I know, maybe you've got a beef with Pilot Flying J.....

 

I was just wondering, how is anything taking shape at this point?   We're two months away from the draft, and free agency hasn't even started yet...

I'm glad you asked, TD.  Let's start at the top, shall we?

1.  We have a rookie Owner who appears -- after all the moves he's made thus far -- to be more interested in adding the Browns as a nice piece to his cash-flow portfolio and being an absentee owner.  I thought most people were sick of Lerner doing that.  Haslam has returned to the CEO role at Flying J, which is already more than a full-time job.  

2.  We have a rookie President who's riding the coatails of nepotism to a position he may not have been suited for.  Banner and Haslam were long-time friends and the buddy system worked to his advantage.  We just got rid of a regime that stagnated early due to the very same faults.  Banner also appears to have a somewhat 'toxic' personality and is difficult to deal with by most accounts.

3.  We have a Director of Player Personnel because the President didn't want to call him a General Manager.  Lombardi has a track record, but it's spotty at best.  He has found some gems in later rounds but has also had some catastrophic blunders in early rounds.  He's been extremely well-connected but has been out of front offices for the past five years.  That usually speaks to some under-lying issues.

4.  We have a rookie Head Coach.  Rob Chudzinski appears fantastic on paper -- Cleveland-native, Browns-fan, offensive-minded, big-play driven, young, exuberant... I could go on.  But until the rubber hits the road, all his paper traits mean jack.  He's been a solid offensive coordinator, but he's had some world-class talent to work with.  He failed to repeat the success he harnessed in 2007 here and by most everyone on these board's opinions, did a poor job managing Cam Newton after his phenomenal rookie season.

5.  We have a second-time-around Defensive Coordinator who on at least two occassions has already undermined his boss (head coach) when he suggested that he was disappointed he wasn't made a head coach (interviewed for the same job at 'Chud', so there's underlying friction) and then on Arizona radio suggested if Arizona made him the head coach, he could have gotten Norv Turner as the Offensive Coordinator in Arizona, versus Chudzinski who got him to come to Cleveland.  He cannot even articulate what kind of defense he wants to run other than to suggest he wants "big men who can run and little men who can hit".  It sounds like Cleveland will be a short-term experience for him as he wants to jump to the HC ranks.  Worse, maybe he takes Norv with him when he goes.

6. We lost the best, most viable shot at a starting QB when Alex Smith was traded.  Not a world-beater by any means, but if all the "optimistic" (read: borderline delusional) fans around here think we're pretty darn close, then you absolutely have to make a move for a guy who can manage an offense and won't be a turnover machine like the incumbent.

7.  We're stuck, for now, with a 30 year old immobile quarterback who was so atrocious as a rookie that 32 other QBs out-performed him -- including four other rookie QBs.  A guy who's only attribute is massively outweighed by poor decision making, league-lagging accuracy and the inability to stop balls from being batted down at the line of scrimmage.  A guy who, from Week 2 to Week 15, showed *zero* signs of improvement.

8.  We're transitioning from a struggling, but growing defense in the 4-3 mold to an amorphous, unarticulated 3-4 "ish" system.  We lack many of the players we will need and we have questionmarks with many others as to how they'll make the transition.  While we may not have been world-beaters, we were steadily improving and another defensive-focused draft could have had us filling all the pieces we lacked.

---

 
On the positive side?

1.  We have a journeyman Offensive Coordinator who's got a fantastic track record and who, despite a poor showing last season, still managed to have a Top 5 offense for half a decade in San Diego as the play-caller.  Norv Turner has been the only commendable hire thus far. 

2.  Trent Richardson should be improved (read: healthy) and should flourish under Norv Turner's offensive system, which leans heavily on a single, all-purpose running back.

So yeah... call it "negative" if you want, but we're 52-108 in the last decade, so excuse me if I don't think 2013 is going to be a rocketing climb up the NFL ladder to "elite" status. 

2.  We have a rookie President who's riding the coatails of nepotism to a position he may not have been suited for.  Banner and Haslam were long-time friends and the buddy system worked to his advantage.  We just got rid of a regime that stagnated early due to the very same faults.  Banner also appears to have a somewhat 'toxic' personality and is difficult to deal with by most accounts.

I think what scares me most about him is his ego, and he strikes me as someone who just wants to just show how smart he is, instead of making a move where not much credit would be given

 

4.  We have a rookie Head Coach.  Rob Chudzinski appears fantastic on paper -- Cleveland-native, Browns-fan, offensive-minded, big-play driven, young, exuberant... I could go on.  But until the rubber hits the road, all his paper traits mean jack.  He's been a solid offensive coordinator, but he's had some world-class talent to work with.  He failed to repeat the success he harnessed in 2007 here and by most everyone on these board's opinions, did a poor job managing Cam Newton after his phenomenal rookie season.

I disargee on Newton. I actually found it encouraging, SAS that after a rough start last year, Newton was able to finish off strong.
 

5.  We have a second-time-around Defensive Coordinator who on at least two occassions has already undermined his boss (head coach) when he suggested that he was disappointed he wasn't made a head coach (interviewed for the same job at 'Chud', so there's underlying friction) and then on Arizona radio suggested if Arizona made him the head coach, he could have gotten Norv Turner as the Offensive Coordinator in Arizona, versus Chudzinski who got him to come to Cleveland.  He cannot even articulate what kind of defense he wants to run other than to suggest he wants "big men who can run and little men who can hit".  It sounds like Cleveland will be a short-term experience for him as he wants to jump to the HC ranks.  Worse, maybe he takes Norv with him when he goes.

I also was not buying the hyp around this guy. And, while everyone goes out of their way not to say it, don't be fooled. They run a 3-4 system. They add the disclaimer, "multifront" to ease concern to the fans over the change from the 4-3. Every team runs a multifront, but if you ask Dick LeBeau what system the Steelers run, he'll simply say a 3-4.
 

6. We lost the best, most viable shot at a starting QB when Alex Smith was traded.  Not a world-beater by any means, but if all the "optimistic" (read: borderline delusional) fans around here think we're pretty darn close, then you absolutely have to make a move for a guy who can manage an offense and won't be a turnover machine like the incumbent.

Tough to blame them for this. Never mind he might not be the best option, but what could they have offered to trump KC's offer? If they truly are looking just for a stopgap, which seems to be the case, as there really isn't a longterm solution available, I'd kick the tires on Carson Palmer. Guy actually had a decent season last year for an awful team. And he's better than Smith
 

7.  We're stuck, for now, with a 30 year old immobile quarterback who was so atrocious as a rookie that 32 other QBs out-performed him -- including four other rookie QBs.  A guy who's only attribute is massively outweighed by poor decision making, league-lagging accuracy and the inability to stop balls from being batted down at the line of scrimmage.  A guy who, from Week 2 to Week 15, showed *zero* signs of improvement.

Wish I could disagree, but I am curious to see what he'll do with Norv as his coach.
 

---

On the positive side?

1.  We have a journeyman Offensive Coordinator who's got a fantastic track record and who, despite a poor showing last season, still managed to have a Top 5 offense for half a decade in San Diego as the play-caller.  Norv Turner has been the only commendable hire thus far.

2.  Trent Richardson should be improved (read: healthy) and should flourish under Norv Turner's offensive system, which leans heavily on a single, all-purpose running back.

So yeah... call it "negative" if you want, but we're 52-108 in the last decade, so excuse me if I don't think 2013 is going to be a rocketing climb up the NFL ladder to "elite" status.

On the positiove side I'd add they have an elite LT and possibly elite shutdown corner. Not always easy potions to fill. O-line is also solid, though they could use an upgrade at the guard positions.
 

I disargee on Newton. I actually found it encouraging, SAS that after a rough start last year, Newton was able to finish off strong.

DT... for the record, I'm with you.  I thought Newton had a very good season and his numbers weren't far off from his 2011 marks.  Many on these boards will point to Newton and say he "slouched" this season and use that as validation as to why a mobile QB isn't the answer.

It was more directed towards them.

That said, Cam Newton and Brandon Weeden are not even in the same stratosphere, let alone QB class.  Newton is a world-class talent.  Weeden is a bum with a strong arm.

Every team runs a multifront, but if you ask Dick LeBeau what system theSteelers run, he'll simply say a 3-4.

Exactly.  

Call it whatever you want... but where is Phillip Taylor lining up?  How about Jabaal Sheard?  Who's rushing the quarterback?  What percentage of the time will you have four linebackers on the field?  Etc.

You can call it the Horton Hears a Cover-2... I don't give a crap.  But your players need to know their assignments, maintain gap integrity and play a role.  You can't have 7 guys rushing the passer and four covers dropping into coverage every play.

Never mind he might not be the best option, but what could they have offered to trump KC's offer? If they truly are looking just for a stopgap, which seems to be the case, as there really isn't a longterm solution available

Again, I agree. I won't fault them for losing out.  As I mentioned earlier, if we had #38 and got into a bidding war, maybe.  I would never have come out with #38 to begin with.  A third and Colt McCoy?  Perhaps.

The point was more to illustrate that we truly are stuck with Brandon Weeden -- a guy who performed worse than 97.1% of every other QB in 2012.

Not always easy potions to fill. O-line is also solid, though they could use an upgrade at the guard positions.

Absolutely.

We still have a free agency period to get through and see what pieces are added there.  They've already tried to temper our expecations by saying not to expect "flashy" or "big name" signings.  That's fine, but we need to grab a WR like Jennings or Wallace -- or draft one early and we need to get a lockdown CB or FS.  And those have to be top-flight talents.

Sam,  It's not that you don't make valid points, because you do...I guess for me, I'll wait until "the rubber hits the pavement" before I get all crazy angry and upset about everything.  I choose to see things in a different light.  Obviously that record you mentioned is horrendous. I'll never argue that point.  This franchise has been atrocious since the rebirth in 99.  It's been one embarrassing failure after another...I'm focusing on the good things.  Look at the personel we had when Mangini was in his first season here, and compare that to what we have now....It's like night and day if you ask me.  Mangini's Browns got blown out in about every game.  That may have been the worst team I've ever seen.  The games were non-competitive, and usually over by halfway through the 2nd qtr...I realize that the progress in player personel hasn't translated in the win column for a number of reasons,(and that sucks) but at least we ARE competitive now.  Winning games seems posible now. In 2009, we knew we were going to lose, and we knew we were going to lose bad. I couldn't even wear my Browns gear without getting heckled.   I understand the frustration, believe me....But I think we ARE getting close now.  We have some studs on the roster, and finally we have an innovative coaching staff in place...You know as well as I do that there were a handfull of games that we lost last year, that we should have won, and that's in spite of the worst coaching staff in NFL history....A couple of breaks, a couple of drops, and boom we go 5-11 again...But it was nothing like Mangini's 5-11 when we got hammered for 12 games in a row, and then put a miraculous win streak together at the end (against the other really bad teams) using Josh Cribbs at QB with a bunch of smoke and mirrors.....

We need consistency from our QB...I think he deserves a chance to show what he's got.  Shurmur and Childress were a joke. I'm giving Weeds the benefit of doubt....He will be much better in year two.  There is no comparison to Pat Shurmur. He wrecked this offense.  I've never seen such a travesty on an offense with that much talent...Luck, RG3 and Wilson would have struggled under Shurmur's guidance too.  I firmly believe that...We may not "rocket up the ladder to elite status" this year, but I do think we'll be in the playoff hunt till the end..Only time will tell.