NFL Network - Chargers pick at #11

Lane Johnson, no need to trade up. If we trade up, go get Dee Milliner. I know we need OL but hear me out. What has won the Super Bowl for the last few years? Defence! I'm a firm believer in a shut down D. When both Mannings won they had a good D. Peyton's D came alive during the playoffs. Look what Ravens did this year, they took the ball way from Peyton 3 times to get to the SB, and played well in the SB. We can pick up OL in the 2nd and 3rd that can be impact players this year. Warford, D. Thomas, Armstead and Aboushi. IMO.  I would like L. Johnson if we stay.

NFL69,

Who did they have Lane Johnson going to?  Arizona probably.  I really think that the Cards go with Geno Smith.

If Johnson is gone... I would go with Dion Jordan or Chance Warmack.

I would not be mad if we got Jordan or Warmack. After the way FA has gone so far anything is possible. Go Telesco!

Thinking about what I said, if we trade up those OL I mentioned would be gone because we wouldn't have a 2nd rd pick if we traded up. To move up would cost our 2nd. Now 1 or 2 might be there in the 3rd. I'm starting to like the idea of moving back. I'm not sure where I read it on here or who said it, maybe jones. Trading back with Cincy and taking that early 2nd pick from them might be the way to go. Take there 21st and 37th over all picks or our 11th. It sure would help with plugging wholes with good talent. It just depends on who falls to us at 11.

My wish list for #11:

1) Fisher/Joekel
2) Milliner
3) Mingo

Call me optimistic, but I think one of those guys will actually be there.  If not,

4) Warmack.  We gave away Vasquez (why?), and I think he is a safer pick than Lane Johnson.   

I also agree with Bolt that we should consider trading back if our top guys are not there at 11.  I am just not sold on Lane Johnson.

We could trade back a few spots and still get Warmack I think;  Plus getting 3 picks in the first 2 Rounds would allow us to spend a couple picks on O-line and a DB. 

If we trade back with Cincy the picks might like something like this. 21st - DJ  Fluker, 37th - Warford and 45th - Jordan Poyer  or  Eric Reid. Not bad in my book. There are a lot of options if we did happen to trade back.

I'm not sold on Fluker. He'not fast enough to protect Rivers. Von Miller would eat him alive... Along with most other DE's/OLB's in the NFL. He's a great run blocker... But (considering we're not built to run) we need two good pass-blocking OT's to protect Rivers. Here's why we have to pick Lane Johnson if he is there... Most experts believe that he is not far behind Fisher/Joeckel talent wise. He is insurance against Gaither's health/willingness. If Gaither's turns out to be solid, then you use Johnson at RT. I'm not completely sure that Dunlap is a starter... I see him as backup material. After Johnson, the OT talent falls way off and you get guy,s that are a big risk. We absolutely have to protect Rivers now.

I tried to make a post a while ago saying essentially the same thing. Probably similar to Clary in pass protection at best. Him and Warford would be a load...and a half...if we were a big time run team, but with the rules changes most likely coming on RBs and zbs schemes that's just another reason to shore up the passing game with players that fit. Flucker, IMO, does not. In fact, LO, you asked me in another thread what my thoughts of Quanterious Smith are...I like him a lot...and he's the small college guy who made Fluker...and everyone else Alabama used tor try to help hin in that game look like rank amateurs. He's an ORT ONLY...and he still will need a ton of work in pass protection and, IMO, will never be a very good pass protector.

Our first OT picked...if we do pick two (highly unlikely, IMO), needs to be a true OLT prospect. IMO, that takes it down to really two that I like if we trade back...Watson and Armstead. If we wait until later, then Faulk and Nixon are two others with NFL ability. Faulk actually was viewed as a top half, perhaps top 10 pick before he was hurt. Nixon, whom I've seen a lot of and thought was going to become the "next big thing" at OLT does have the talent to be a really good OLT in the NFL. However, I'd be cautious with him...no sooner than the 4th, IMO, due to what I'm seeing as a lack of drive, desire, or whatever you want to call it. There's not thing wrong with his talent, he stacks up against the top guys pretty well, but he missed too many games, IMO, due to less than significant injuries. If he won't play with a hangnail in college, that's not likely to change in the NFL.

We probably will select Johnson, if he's still on the board, but I'd take Warmack if the two of them are there. I have him rated much higher, and in all honesty I think Johnson will have a difficult time staying healthy in the NFL due to his less than adequate lower body build, which really doesn't lend itself to ever becoming the lower body of a true NFL OL, IMO. I don't think the bone size/density is there.

First of all, Happy St. Patricks Day to you all.  Beers all around!

Now to the order of business.

LightsOut - They did not have any Mock Draft saying where Lane Johnson would go.
                 They simply said that he would likely be gone.


Hizzle - Joeckel, Fisher, and Milliner are all projected to go in the Top 6 ...
                at least from what I have seen in other Mock Drafts by the pundits.
            But Mingo should be there at #11.  I don't know if he is any improvement
             over what we already have.  I would prefer Warmack or Cooper if they are around.

Boltdacious - I would not want to trade too far down and miss out on a stud O-Lineman.
                    It would depend on the deal I suppose - and who is left on the board.


jonesy - I was high on Johnson until you made the point that he may be prone to injury
             with his skinny legs.  Then I thought of another ex-TE turned LT: Jason Peters.
              So you have me a little worried about Johnson now!

            Also, I agree Chance Warmack would be a safe and solid pick for us.
            But I actually rate Jonathan Cooper higher because of his fantastic athleticism.
             I think he could be the next Randall McDaniel.  But hey, I'll take either of those OGs.

            As for Menelik Watson and Terron Armstead, they are both intriguing prospects
             but each has a risk for LT (IMO).  Watson played RT only if I am not mistaken.
              Armstead seems to often "flirt with danger" by just barely clearing his man around the QB.

            As for Faulk and Nixon, I dont' think they really have the feet for LT.
              I suppose each has a shot though - but I wouldn't count on it.
             If I had to choose between these two, I'd take Nixon.  He brings the attitude on the field.

            What is your opinion on David Bakhtiari?
             I have not seen much of him, but what I did see looked pretty good.

           

I agree those 3 are projected to go top 6 or so.  But...

I just have a weird feeling we may see a qb run early.  I still don't know what the Chiefs are going to do.  They resigned Albert who says he will only play OLT.  They got a qb in free agency, but do they believe in him???

If neither Fisher nor Joeckel go #1, then Jags are set to take DE, and Raiders DT Floyd.  

The Eagles would likely swipe up one of the 3 I mentioned, but that would only leave 6 picks in front of us, with 2 of our players on the board, and at least a couple teams in front of us needing qbs.

 

I was high on Johnson until you made the point that he may be prone to injury
             with his skinny legs.  Then I thought of another ex-TE turned LT: Jason Peters.
              So you have me a little worried about Johnson now!

I still think his upside is intriguing, but I do have honest concerns about his lower body. Peters was a good comparison, I think.

           

Also, I agree Chance Warmack would be a safe and solid pick for us.
            But I actually rate Jonathan Cooper higher because of his fantastic athleticism.
             I think he could be the next Randall McDaniel.  But hey, I'll take either of those OGs.

I could live with Cooper as well, but Warmack is simply a dominating player. Cooper depends on his speed/agility to make his plays. A nagging injury, such as an ankle sprain is more apt to affect his play, IMO, than it would Warmack, and I think for the most part that people ignore or discount the fact that Warmack is a pretty smooth mover himself for a man of his size. Most scouts state he could play at a high level in any blocking scheme he's put in, be it a pure power scheme, or a man/zbs, such as the Chargers are probably going to use.

           

As for Menelik Watson and Terron Armstead, they are both intriguing prospects
             but each has a risk for LT (IMO).  Watson played RT only if I am not mistaken.
              Armstead seems to often "flirt with danger" by just barely clearing his man around the QB.

Neither are among the elite at this moment, but both have the potential you're looking for to develop. Both, IMO, would be capable of starting for us this year on one side or the other. You're right about Watson playing ORT in college, but he's a player most believe has a future on the left side in the pros. I'm not sure about that, but he'd for sure make a damn good ORT, and if we traded back at least he'd help shore up the OL, which, IMO, needs five new bodies in short order.

           

As for Faulk and Nixon, I dont' think they really have the feet for LT.
              I suppose each has a shot though - but I wouldn't count on it.
             If I had to choose between these two, I'd take Nixon.  He brings the attitude on the field.

Well, if you're saying neither has the feet for OLT in the NFL, IMO, you're wrong...way wrong on both counts. Faulk especially is quite the mover when healthy. That's the big concern with him for me. As I stated on Nixon, it's his desire, which is why I wouldn't consider drafting him until the 4th at the very earliest. I actually think you might find him in the 5th based on his atttitude, but someone may look at his Freshman tape and go, "Holy crap!!!" Back then he was a stud, or at least I thought he was. He's been a disappointment ever since, at least to me, and as I alluded to, I think it's more a case of a lack of desire. I just don't know that the game of football is really all that important to him.

         

   What is your opinion on David Bakhtiari?
             I have not seen much of him, but what I did see looked pretty good.

Ahhhh...Bakhtiari...one of my favorite OL sleepers. He'll need, IMO, a year to put on the weight needed, but I see him as a nice OG down the road. He's talented, but he is somewhat of a project, albeit a very nice project. Unlike Lane Johnson though, his body is built for adding the weight in the proper distribution for an OL, so to me it's just a matter of hitting the chow lines and the weight room before he's really ready to make his move.

Another OT in college that I love...maybe because I'm a bit 'Cuse fan...is Pugh from Syracuse. He's another I think will find a nice home at OG in the NFL, but I don't see him getting past the 2nd round.

Both Bahktiari and Pugh have shorter reaches than is seen as ideal for a LT.  Most think these guys will end up at OG.  I think we won't have to worry about LT.  I think that Lane Johnson will be there @ 11.  I just don't see the Cardinals passing on Geno Smith (and going with Drew Stanton).  At some point, they will have to make Larry Fitzgerald happy and go get a true franchise quarterback.  Geno Smith can certainly make the throws that Bruce Arians needs him to make in that offense.  Also... with Levi Brown being signed until 2017, it wouldn't make financial sense for them to go after Johnson @ #7 (especially with those "skinny legs" )

I think that Lane Johnson will be there @ 11.  I just don't see the Cardinals passing on Geno Smith (and going with Drew Stanton)

First, on Johnson. My money is on this...even IF he's there, I believe the Chargers are going in a different direction. How's that?

Second, I think it was last week when the Cardinals announced (are they playing liar's poker?) that QB was off their board with their 1st round pick. Speculation, and the latest mocks have taken those statements into consideration and most analysts are now moving that pick to...yep, you guessed it...Lane Johnson. Also, the latest mock draft by nfl.com's Mike Smith states that Smith and Johnson are going 7 and 8 to the Cardinals and Bills, it's just a matter of who goes where.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/mock-
drafts/matt-smith/165603

NFL analyst Bucky Brooks' newest mock is also out, and he has Johnson going to the Cardinals as well.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/mock-
drafts/bucky-brooks/165602?icampaign=ATL_newsdriver

So, IMO, it's a terrible year to be drafting at No. 11 and needing an OLT with 3 good ones eligible for the draft. Under normal circumstances, we'd probably get to select from two of them, but at least one would fall to us. That's just not likely this year, and honestly, based on who the Chargers brought in, which did include Johnson, I don't think they're taking him. I honestly believe he was a smoke screen to cover up for who they really want, and I do not believe they brought that person to town, whomever it is. You all know the names of the players who deserve to be mentioned in the top say 15, so it could be anyone of those...except...IMO...Johnson and Ansah...the two players they did bring in.

This is just a hunch, but I also noticed they brought in some players who will go a bit lower in the 1st...so maybe a trade down for extra picks is in the cards here.

Also... with Levi Brown being signed until 2017, it wouldn't make financial sense for them to go after Johnson

Except for the fact that ORT is Levi Brown's natural position. They made him their OLT because he was the only guy they had that could play a half decent OLT.

nyyjones: First on Johnson...even IF he's there, I believe the Chargers are going in a different direction.

----------------

I can certainly buy into that theory.  The Chargers NEVER take who I want.
Although in this case, if they took one of those stud OGs I would be very happy
 - especially since you've got me paranoid about Johnson's skinny legs.
But knowing them, they will do something else.

Also, I'm surprised you think Faulk and Nixon have the feet for LT in the NFL.
I think both are vulnerable to speed rushers and inside moves.
Maybe I'll have to revisit the tape.  But for the moment we will have to agree to disagree.

============


nyyjones: IMO, it's a terrible year to be drafting at No. 11 and needing an OLT

----------

Yep.  That's what I've been worrying about.
I'm not saying that Johnson won't be there.  I'm just saying that it certainly is NOT a lock.
It looks more like 50/50 at best...probably not even that.

Also, I'm surprised you think Faulk and Nixon have the feet for LT in the NFL.
I think both are vulnerable to speed rushers and inside moves.
Maybe I'll have to revisit the tape.  But for the moment we will have to agree to disagree.

This is the cbs draft capsule on Faulk, which is basically what I remember before his ACL injury.

Very smooth out of his stance. He eases to his left, latches on with strong hands and has the lateral agility and balance to sustain blocks in pass protection. He possesses long arms and surprising flexibility to reach speed rushers. Shows the ability to handle speed rushers when left one on one, rarely allowing any pressure off the edge.

That being said, they also have him rated as a 3rd or 4th round prospect. I'm not up to speed on his injury status or progress, so I can't say that he's worth a 2nd right now, but if he's there in the 4th, I think I'd jump out of my chair if the Chargers drafted him. He's also a very good run blocker, something not normally found in OLTs these days, and is perhaps as close to Fisher in that regard as any OLT in the draft. My big concern is his weight. If you get him down to 320, he should be fine...even quicker.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/
players/1664212/chris-faulk

And here's cbs's take on Nixon, which I can attest to is pretty accurate. Living here if FL I see a lot of these Florida boys. You can read the rest of his capsule here. Don't get me wrong on him...I'm not saying I'd even draft him until the 5th at the earliest because I personally do not like his attitude towards the game. I don't think he had the mental toughness or desire to become the football player his potential says he can be. All I was trying to do was point out that he does have the ability...if he brings the desire...to be a damn good OLT in the NFL...but most likely will never do so, IMO.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/messag
es/post-message/41000548/41014772

Sorry about that....

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/
players/1664192/xavier-nixon     

I just don't believe that the Cards are going with Drew Stanton as their starting QB.  The guy has been a career backup and Fitzgerald will lose his patience eventually.

The Bills have no QB after letting Fitzpatrick go.  I have to believe that Geno Smith and Matt Barkley go #7 and #8.  If there is talk of selecting Lane Johnson at #7 or #8... it's only an attempt to convince the Chargers to move up (and get their 3rd round pick).  The draft is deep... it would be foolish to trade up this year.  Hope the Chargers don't fall for it.

BTW... a month ago (when I posted that I liked Nixon in the 3rd or 4th) you were sour on the idea... what has changed?

I just don't believe that the Cards are going with Drew Stanton as their starting QB.  The guy has been a career backup and Fitzgerald will lose his patience eventually.

Your problem is two-fold if you don't believe this...actually, three-fold.

First of all, Stanton was widely looked at as a potential NFL starter when he was initially drafted by Detroit...who then took Stafford which you can hardly blame them for. He was traded to the Jets, who then got Tebow and he asked them to then trade him which, to their credit they did, and the Colts readily took him off their hands. I think he's ready for his chance. Will he succeed? Who knows?

Secondly, Arians seems to believe he can, and he coached him last year. Why invest a No. 1 pick on a QB from a class that more than one GM has been quoted as saying something like, "We have to force ourselves to see a No. 1 pick out of this group."

Which is actually the third reason for them NOT to take a QB with the 7th pick. You've got a young QB on your roster that you made a move for in the off season that you think has a good chance of succeeding in the NFL. Why waste the 7th pick on a QB who is most likely NOT worth the 7th pick? Why not take BPA...hopefully an OLT or OLB who can come in and start for you and be a potential difference maker for either your offense or defense? You can still the the QB in the 2nd or 3rd round at a much better and more realistic value that you can sit for a year...or even a half year if Stanton doesn't produce. If Stanton does produce, and the young QB does develop, then you have a nice bargaining chip down the road.

To me, it's a no brainer. Hasta la bye bye Lane Johnson to Arizona.

If there's one thing we call can count on about the NFL draft is that it's not predictable; especially after the first few picks. More than most years, there's no clear concensus on the top 10 players or even the top 15.  Without the elite skill players, especially at quarterback, this makes this year's draft a lot more interesting to figure out and also increases the likelihood of offensive linemen being taken earlier than usual.  That also makes the possibility of Lane Johnson being gone by number eleven more likely. 

I see the potential for a lot of movement in the draft this year as teams will be willing to trade up or down according to their needs which includes the Chargers. 

As far as the Cards are concerned, I just can't see them counting on Stanton as more than a back-up, especially given their recent history.  Do they wait until the second round on someone like Matt Barkey or do they take the kid from West Virginia at 7?  Do they trade down a few spots and still get a quarterback in the first?  Sometimes, needs come before the BPA and that certain could apply to the Chargers more than the Cards. The Cards need offensive linemen as much as the Chargers and also need a quarterback.   

I see the potential for a lot of movement in the draft this year as teams will be willing to trade up or down according to their needs which includes the Chargers. 

I agree.  11 is starting to look like less and less of a desireable spot.  I'm not against going higher to get Joeckel or Fisher; or lower to stock pile and address multiple needs (since we aren't lighting the world on fire through fa).

#5)  Here's what Steve Keim (Cardinals new GM) said about his QB situation...

“There are what, seven or eight very good quarterbacks in this league and then every other team is doing the same thing, with a revolving door where they are searching like we are,”

Not exactly a shining endorsement of the "sign-a-backup and hope-he's-your-starter" philosophy...

Keim is the GM who said, "we're being "forced" to view one or more of these QBs as a top 10 player," that I alluded to.

Think what you want. I think the Cardinals take an OLT (or an OLB) if one is still on the board, and the QB in the 2nd. Just because they need a QB doesn't mean they need to be stupid about it if they don't believe any of these QBs are top 10 players. If they're intent on taking a QB in the 1st, then I could see them trading down before using a top 10 pick on one. If that happens, it might be a trade with Miami, or perhaps the Rams, both of whom want OL. Even with the Rams signing Long, they could easily trade up into the top 10 with their extra 1st round pick and take another OT, while moving last year's OLT inside to OG, as I've heard being a possibility.

And, you make it seem like the Jets were happy to get rid of Stanton. You might be right, for it was reported by the NY press that after giving Sanchez the big contract last year that they didn't want to take the chance of Stanton coming in and out performing Sanchez in camp, which they knew there was a chance of that happening, while knowing Tebow would not do. I think I follow what happens with other teams quite a bit more closely than you do, otherwise you never would have made such a statement. Also, the Colts were fully comfortable with Stanton being able to run their offense should Luck have rookie difficulties or suffer an injury, and not as just an afterthought like you try to make it sound. The guy has talent. He was a project when he was drafted, but a talented project, and now he's going to probably get his chance. I followed him in Detroit, and he clearly improved every single year. He's a good prospect, much better than you're giving him credit for.

OK

Just found this on rotoworld...

According to the Associated Press, there's "no doubt" the Cardinals are leaning toward Drew Stanton as their 2013 starting quarterback.

On Wednesday, coach Bruce Arians insisted his team doesn't need to hunt for a quarterback. "We already found one," he said. Arians' faith in Stanton appears real and not a smokescreen. Stanton knows the system after spending last year as Andrew Luck's backup, and has good arm strength and athleticism. "I have all the confidence in the world with him being our starter," Arians said. Stanton remains unlikely to be viewed as Arizona's long-term quarterback solution. We do expect him to open the 2013 season as the starter.

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/
nfl/258530/cardinals-planning-to-ro
ll-with-drew-stanton

Your problem believing that Drew Stanton is the Cardinals starting QB is three-fold... nay, five-or-six fold.

First of all, Stanton was widely looked at as a potential NFL starter when he was initially drafted by Detroit...who then took Stafford which you can hardly blame them for.

#1)  No, he wasn't even able to over-come Jon Kitna... at his worst.  Before Stafford was drafted... both Shaun Hill and Old Dante Culpepper were brought in via free agency in consecutive years.  Stanton had 3 years to overcome Kitna, Hill, and Culpepper.  Only started 4 games in that span... with a 63 QB rating.  Stanton was never higher than a #3 QB for the Lions.

He was traded to the Jets, who then got Tebow and he asked them to then trade him...

#2)  Again, #3 QB... behind Sanchez and Tebow...!?  Not good for his image as a potential starter.

...and the Colts readily took him off their hands.

#3)  "Off their hands" is an adequate statement... knowing that Andrew Luck was on the way.  They knew Curtis Painter wasn't the backup.  So the NFL has put Drew Stanton's value somewhere between Tim Tebow and Curtis Painter...

#4)  Here's what Bruce Arians has said about Stanton...

"If I name him the quarterback then I’ll feel real comfortable that he’s our guy."  If...?  If what...?  If another team trades up to nab Geno Smith before he gets to #7...?  If the Jaguars don't draft him at #2...?  If the Raiders don't draft Geno Smith with the #3 pick...?  If...?  Damn, IF Stanton is your guy... tell us with conviction.  Does Mike McCoy start any of his sentences related to QB with... "If Philip wins the QB competition... I feel... uh, comfortable."

#5)  Here's what Steve Keim (Cardinals new GM) said about his QB situation...

“There are what, seven or eight very good quarterbacks in this league and then every other team is doing the same thing, with a revolving door where they are searching like we are,”

Not exactly a shining endorsement of the "sign-a-backup and hope-he's-your-starter" philosophy...

#6)  Geno Smith had a great Pro Day

Hey LightsOut,

I'm with you on Drew Stanton.  I don't think the Cards are sold on him.
In fact, jonesy might be the only person who is hopeful of him.

And yes, I believe the Cards very well might draft Geno Smith (or even move up to get him).
But, I also agree with nyyjones that there is just as much logic to wait until the 2nd Round
for better value on a QB since NONE of these QBs seem very promising.

I highly doubt that the Bills would take Matt Barkley with the #8 pick.
That just seems too high - right now.  Opinions can change in a month's time.
If Barkley wows everyone at his Pro Day then who knows where he will go.

But right now I just think #8 is too much of a reach.
Of course, I said the exact same thing last year about Ryan Tannehill at #8 and look what happened.



Hey Charge,

I agree with your point exactly about the fact that since it is a weak draft for the skill positions,
it will be more likely that the Left Tackles get taken earlier - and thus Lane Johnson could very well
be gone before our #11 pick.  But as my next point indicates, it may not matter. 


Hey jonesy,

I am thinking more and more that you are right about the Chargers simply going in a different
direction than OLine - regardless of who is there.  I could see them taking any of these guys
for example who would still fill a need:

1) Star Lotulelei  NT  - since we cut Garey

2) Xavier Rhodes  CB - since we lost Antoine Cason

3) Cordarrelle Patterson  WR - Since we never replaced VJ

4) Dion Jordan  OLB - Since we lost Antwan Barnes and maybe Shaun Phillips


We have so many needs to fill that we might as well take Best Player Available - in every round!