Manny trade winds pick up with no deal on table

Barely more than an hour before the trade deadline, Boston continued to work feverishly Thursday in hopes of completing a Manny Ramirez trade, but the three-way discussions between the Red Sox, Florida and Pittsburgh still haven't yielded a deal -- and they might not.

Indications are that Boston now has turned to the Los Angeles Dodgers in hopes of salvaging a deal for Ramirez, perhaps hoping the Dodgers could replace Florida in a three-way with Pittsburgh that would still send outfielder Jason Bay to Boston.

Multiple sources with knowledge of the talks said Thursday that Boston, Florida and Pittsburgh so far have not been able to advance the general parameters of a deal they on which they worked much of Wednesday night and Thursday morning. It is believed that part of the hangup is that the Marlins steadfastly refuse to part with two of their top prospects, outfielder Mike Stanton and pitcher Ryan Tucker.

As a result, indications are that the Red Sox approached the Dodgers, who also have a deep farm system, in hopes that Los Angeles perhaps would surrender the prospects to finish off a trade that would send Ramirez to the Dodgers, Bay to the Red Sox and prospects to Pittsburgh.

The Red Sox still would cover the remaining $7 million or so of Ramirez's 2008 contract under this scenario, as they would have had the slugger been dealt to Florida.

If the deal is resurrected with the Marlins, outfielder Jeremy Hermida would move from Florida to Pittsburgh along with prospects, according to sources.

But with the 4 p.m. non-waivers deadline approaching, barring a last-minute change, it appears as if Florida will not become Ramirez's new mailing address. Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria would love a big bat and star player -- they took a run at catcher Pudge Rodriguez this week before the New York Yankees acquired him on Wednesday, according to one major league official -- but Florida is reluctant to trade certain prospects.

Hermida isn't the problem -- the Pirates, according to sources, have attempted to acquire him from the Marlins in the past. But the level of prospects moving from Florida to Pittsburgh appears to be one potential sticking point on a couple of fronts:

• The Marlins viewed Ramirez as a prize if they can keep certain prospects -- such as the right-handed Tucker, rated as Florida's fourth-best prospect entering this season by Baseball America, and Stanton, an 18-year-old outfielder who walloped his South Atlantic League-leading 27th homer of the season for Class A Greensboro on Wednesday night.

• The Pirates like Hermida but are reluctant to ship Bay to Boston without receiving a near-foolproof package of prospects. Especially in light of harsh criticism they took for what some viewed as not getting enough in return from the New York Yankees when they sent outfielder Xavier Nady and lefty set-up man Damaso Marte there last week.

As for the Red Sox, that they and Ramirez have reached the end of the line is clear, especially, it is believed, in light of his disparaging comments about the organization on Wednesday.

What will become clear Thursday morning is whether the end of the line is Thursday's 4 p.m. ET non-waivers trade deadline, or a date-to-be-named later this winter.

Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein seemingly has spent half of his time in Boston attempting to deal Ramirez, either in the winter or at the July trade deadline two years ago.