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Dodgers can only imagine where they would be with Lee

PHILADELPHIA -- Pennants can turn on big home runs, big errors, big calls by umpires and managers (Hiroki Kuroda? Really?), and any number of other things that so fascinate us in the cool of October.

But pennants also turn on what fascinates us in the heat of July.

Dodgers can only imagine where they would be with Lee - MLB - CBSSports.com Baseball

Cliff Lee fascinated us then, when he was the ace starter the Phillies traded for -- and also one of the many ace starters the Dodgers didn't trade for. Cliff Lee also fascinates us now, when he might be the single biggest reason the Phillies are two victories away from a repeat trip to the World Series -- and one of the biggest reasons the Dodgers are two losses away from their 21st consecutive year without a World Series.

It's not just that Lee was great again Sunday night, with eight scoreless innings in the Phils' 11-0 Game 3 victory against the Dodgers. It's not just that Lee is playing the part Cole Hamels did for the Phillies last year -- only playing it better through three starts so far (0.74 ERA).

It's that when the Phillies got Lee from the Indians on July 29, the Dodgers were trying to get him, too. And if there were a team that needed a pitcher like Lee more than the Phillies did, it was the Dodgers.

"And that's why we tried," general manager Ned Colletti said.

The way Colletti tells it, the Dodgers tried very hard. Colletti didn't come right out and say he thought the Dodgers had offered more for Lee than the Phillies did, but he was willing to say they offered a lot.

"We offered four guys," he said. "We were choking on the third guy, and we went to the fourth [too]."

I can't tell you if the Dodgers' offer was better. I can tell you if there's one thing that would drastically change how we look at this National League Championship Series, it would be a rewrite of history that puts Lee in Dodgers blue instead of Phillies red.

Imagine the Phillies without Lee.

"Ruben's pretty smart," Phils shortstop Jimmy Rollins said, referring to GM Ruben Amaro. "He'd have found somebody else."

Fine, but imagine Lee on the Dodgers' side of this NLCS.

"That side?" Rollins asked. "We just would have had to beat him."

Well, there is that. As tough and as confident as this Phillies team is, maybe it finds a way to win, anyway.

Cliff Lee looks great in Phillies red, and that makes Dodgers management feel rather blue. (AP)  
Cliff Lee looks great in Phillies red, and that makes Dodgers management feel rather blue. (AP)  
Maybe Ryan Howard, who is already dominating this NLCS the way he dominated the Phillies' first-round victory against the Rockies, triples off Lee the way he tripled off Kuroda in the first inning Sunday. Maybe Jayson Werth still hits his first-inning home run, and maybe Lee is the one exiting in the second inning with the Phillies on the way to an early 6-0 lead.

Maybe, but don't you think the Dodgers would take their chances with Lee on their side?

I'll guarantee one thing: If Lee is starting for the Dodgers, you wouldn't hear them talking about him the way they talked about Kuroda before Game 3 on Sunday.

"No idea," one Dodgers person after another answered when asked how Kuroda would do. "No idea."

One game doesn't make a series, and even with the loss to Lee, the Dodgers trail this NLCS only two games to one. They could still make it into a long series, maybe even a seven-game series, which would give them another chance to see Lee up close -- in a Game 6 or 7 this weekend.

But those of us who like to look ahead can already start to wonder what Game 1 of the World Series will be like if it matches Lee with CC Sabathia, his one-time teammate with the Indians.

Meanwhile, those of you who care about the Dodgers can start to wonder what will happen next to that team's starting rotation.

Think of what has happened already.

Their Game 2 starter in last year's playoffs (Chad Billingsley) is now a mop-up man, called on Sunday when it was already 6-0. Their Game 1 starter in this year's playoffs (Randy Wolf) became the Game 4 starter in this series.

Their Game 1 starter in this series (Clayton Kershaw) is a 21-year-old kid so talented that scouts sometimes compare him to Sandy Koufax, but still so erratic that one of those scouts also compared him to Tommy Lasorda -- and not for his future as a manager.

"That's the thing," the scout said. "You don't know if he's going to be Koufax, or Lasorda."

Poll
What's the biggest reason why the Phillies lead the Dodgers in the NLCS?
  31% Hitting
 
 
  42% Starting pitching
 
 
  6% Managing
 
 
  21% Confidence
 
 
 
Total Votes: 3085

And then there's Kuroda, who couldn't pitch in the first round because of a bulging disk in his neck. Manager Joe Torre and pitching coach Rick Honeycutt flew in to watch Kuroda in an Arizona Fall League game last Tuesday, then declared him fit enough to face the Phillies.

He didn't need to be that fit, since Torre could stand to watch him for only 39 miserable pitches.

"He just came into the game, and the ball didn't behave," Torre said, insisting there was no reason to second-guess the decision to start Kuroda.

And what did Torre think of Lee?

"What I always think of Cliff Lee," he said. "He's pretty special."

He has been special for the Phillies, from the day they got him from the Indians to Sunday night, when he and the Phillies hitters helped send Torre's Dodgers to the franchise's worst postseason defeat since Game 1 of the 1959 World Series.

"A loss is a loss," catcher Russell Martin said. "It's not like we're heartbroken or anything."

No reason to be heartbroken Sunday night. If the Dodgers had their hearts broken over Cliff Lee, it was back in July, when they wanted him so badly and couldn't get him.

"Cliff Lee was great tonight," Colletti said. "But Cliff Lee wasn't the only reason we lost this game."

No, but if the Dodgers lose two more games and lose the National League pennant, you have to believe they'll be wondering if Cliff Lee is a big part of the reason why.

 
For more from Danny Knobler, check him out on Twitter: @DKnobler
 

Talk Back
Reputation:91
Level:All-Star
Since:Oct 11, 2008

October 19, 2009 3:59 pm
Isn't this kind of article what baseball (all sports for that matter) is all about? I hear the what if scenarios. What if the Dodgers got Cliff Lee? What if the Phillies completed the deal for ...(more)
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Apr 1, 2007

October 19, 2009 12:55 pm
Does that mean they'd both be pitching the Tribe into the world series this year? No. It pains me to know the Indians won't have any pitchers of their caliber for many years to come. They got a bunch of crap from the Phillies for Lee. At least they got a couple of really good every d ...(more)
Reputation:90
Level:All-Star
Since:Dec 26, 2006

October 19, 2009 2:39 pm
The Phillies go out and smoke the Dodgers last night and you have people writing articles about what if Lee played for the dodgers. How about talking about how the Phillies hitting and pitching combined crushed the Dodgers. For the last couple of days all i hear is the Dodgers are bet ...(more)
Reputation:58
Level:Pro
Since:Dec 10, 2006

October 19, 2009 4:04 am
I must say I was a little worried about Ruben when he took over as the GM.  Those were big shoes he had to fill in, to prove that the Phillies were not a one-year-wonder, but he looks like a genius now.  Getting Lee was one hell of a move, but he also signed Pedro and Ibanez.  With Rollins, Hamels, Moyer and especially Lidge ...(more)
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Dec 21, 2006

October 19, 2009 8:33 am
Realy if Lee went to the Dogerers you say the Dodgers are winning it. that is absurd for one he didn't and the Dodgers weren't going to put up the doe for him so they figured they didn't need him. Now for argument sake lets say that the Dodgers get Lee, who is to say that the Phillies ...(more)
Reputation:97
Level:Superstar
Since:Mar 30, 2007

October 19, 2009 2:14 pm
please?
Reputation:47
Level:Rookie
Since:Feb 8, 2009

October 19, 2009 12:47 pm
So what!!!!!!!! Someone was going down 2-1 and chances were it would be the Dodgers.  Philly fan can blow their horn all day about being up 2-1, but in reality shouldn't the favorite be up?  I'll check back later.

The real story for me is what's going on with the programming of these series'.  The Dodgers/Phillies p
...(more)
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Feb 26, 2008

October 19, 2009 12:21 pm
One question  ? Where are the four prospects now ? Who were the four prospects?  Its simple Dodgers

WOULDA , COULDA AND SHOULDA .....................

NO ACE NO GO SAME OLD STORY.................... FRANK N JAMIE SHOULD JUST SELL THE TEAM
Did they really think they could win without and ACE Hammels lasy t
...(more)
Reputation:91
Level:All-Star
Since:Jun 2, 2008

October 19, 2009 9:51 am

ive been reading this guys articles for 2 years and i have to say he is the dumbest friggin idiot ever.he writes the worst articles. why is cbs paying this guy to write. number 1 wouldnt let him post his picture he looks like quasi-modo. cbs please fire this guy and hire someone else. im at loss for words.

 
 
 
 
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