Moderator: Tonight's guest is NFL stadium consultant Rick Horrow. Rick is an expert on franchise relocation. He is ready so fire away with questions.
Moderator: Rick - Let's begin by introducing yourself to our chatters. Who are you and what do you do?
Rick Horrow: I'm Rick Horrow and they call me the sports professor on prime sports TV and radio. I am glad to discuss sports biz and law issues on SportsLine. I co-teach a sports law class at the Harvard law school and work the with NFL and Baltimore Orioles and LPGA and other leagues on building stadiums and buying and selling franchises.
Moderator: (roger) Is all of the franchise relocation that is taking place these days mind-boggling? Or is this something you expected.
Rick Horrow: It's not out of the ordinary. Over the last 5 years, sixty two pro franchises requested new stadiums or new deals; 31 new stadium arenas have been built in the last 6 years, most in baseball and basketball even though football is hogging headlines this is an issue in all 4 major sports. Teams need to look around for their best deals as cost of buying franchises continues to escalate and the public is giving owners better deals and more cities see need to remain big league by building these facilities.
Moderator: (ApplePie) Why did the NFL let the Browns move and not the Seahawks?
Rick Horrow: The Browns deal is done in cooperation with the mayor of Cleveland as he got a public/private partnership done to build it. The NFL also looked at Baltimore and their new $200M lottery funded stadium deal. The Cleveland and Baltimore move will put teams in both cities which are good markets for the league. The Seattle move was done even though a resolution was passed the year before leaving the LA market alone, so the league has tried to protect its process by pressuring a move back to Seattle so the LA process can continue under league supervision.
Moderator: (criess) Are you involved with Heat/Panthers move? Where will each end up?
Rick Horrow: I was involved in building the first arena in Miami as the founding director of the Miami Sports Authority. Those were the longest 6 years of my life, I aged 50 years. Now it's simply who can get the most public money from each county and each team is trying its best to be the first one on their block to have a sparkling new arena to generate sizeable revenues. I don't think this deal will be over until fat lady sings.
Moderator: (ApplePie) Why should teams be able to look around for their best deals while the owners continue to complain about free agency for players?
Rick Horrow: Because in the current system of collective bargaining agreement, the only way to pay substantial free agent bonuses is by using stadium related revenue, ticket sales and others to pay to sign free agent stars to become competitive team. Most other revenue in the NFL in the form TV and tix sales, is shared, so only way a have team can be distinguished from not having a team is by their stadium deal that's the way it is in NFL economics.
Moderator: What about the new deals teams are working with advertisers - i.e. Pacific Bell Park
Rick Horrow: There are new sources of corporate investment on stadiums that have not existed to this level before. Airlines like America West, Delta, USAir, United, Air Canada, and Transworld have all paid upwards of $20M to have latest arena or stadium named, then the banks got involved, Great Western Forum, Key Arena and others. Now the communications companies, MCI, and others all over the country; it's a novel way to get private investment in a stadium which means less public money. It started with Carrier Dome in Syracuse years ago; more than 20 years ago and it exploded from there. Carrier Air Conditioning sponsors the Carrier dome.
Moderator: Do you think 3Com would have signed the deal if they knew the Giants would be leaving?
Rick Horrow: The deal was done on a short term 6 month basis with option to extend to a number of other years. 3Com understood the risk that the ballpark might only be a 49ers stadium and with 49ers angling for a new stadium, 3Com might not have long term deal with them. They made a business decision and they knew what they were getting into.
Moderator: Heard rumors today about Steinbrenner relocating Yankee Stadium next to Madison Square Garden, any truth to the rumors?
Rick Horrow: There are discsusion ongoing about the Yankees looking at number of sites all over metro area. I'm sure that George will play his cards close to the vest until the best deal possible, basically anywhere in the NY area. You can't discount any location. Stay tuned.
Moderator: Are you involved with the Browns move?
Rick Horrow: I work with the NFL and as a result we have a responsibilitiy to make sure a stadium gets done in Cleveland in a timely manner, and now that owners approved the Browns move to Baltimore, that 200M stadium needs to be done in first class manner too. We have work to do in both cities.
Moderator: When do you think another team will move to Los Angeles? And where will they play?
Rick Horrow: Good question. The league has a process through Football LA, and the LA Sports and Entertainment Commission to try to get as many stadium sites going as possible to build a new NFL quality stadium. For a new or relocated team as well as a number of future Super Bowls. Hopefully, in the next 2 years all of that will work itself out. Stay tuned.
Moderator: (texkan) follow up to Ravens move...what about the angry voters that don't want $$$$$ invested into stadiums.... any comment?
Rick Horrow: You can't please everybody. The last vote in Cincinnati on March 19 for two new stadiums there passed 61 to 39 percent. Hopefully, people who vote against stadium issues will realize the growth, job creation and economic impact that stadiums will produce and will not be opposed once they see what stadium can do for the community.
Moderator: (criess) What city do you think deserves a franchise that currently does not have one?
Rick Horrow: That's another interesting question. The LA market is important to the NFL. The Nashville voters have a referedum on May 7 and we'll see if they support that for a new stadium deal.
Moderator: (texkan) follow up: you must be kidding, voters want better use of their tax dollars than stadiums....any more comments?
Rick Horrow: I'm not kidding, he must not have read the vote result in Cincy. I'm not saying that stadiums are more important than schools. I'm saying that hotel taxes, rental car taxes are the best way to build stadiums because they tax tourists and users of these facilities. Those people along with team owners should be ones who combine to pay for them and that's what's happening.
Moderator: (texkan) Yes I did, but I'm talking about the wash-balt area stadiums, huge voter dissatisfaction there.
Rick Horrow: Hopefully the new Redskins facility and the new stadium for the Ravens will make people forget their oppositions and will be excited about what facilities can do for the area. Where are you on the season ticket list?
Moderator: But aren't some facilities in areas that are downtrodden and aren't helped necessarily by the stadium?
Rick Horrow: There are a lot of stadiums around the country that are built with promises to renovate a downtown area. Sometimes it works (Indy and St. Louis). Sometimes it doesn't. Miami is an example of one that didn't. But there are other benefits to stadiums and arenas beyond urban renewal. Primarily as tourists generators, look at Camden Yards.
Moderator: (ApplePie) Why are cities so hot to build new baseball parks and so reluctant to build football stadiums (ie Cleveland, Seattle)?
Rick Horrow: The trend is turning around. Look at new football stadium processes in Atlanta, Jacksonville, St. Louis, Cleveland, Baltimore, Nashville, and now probably Tampa. Baseball stadiums are being built as well, but football is now having its day. And with 16 leases expiring in next 11 years in the NFL, this trend will probably continue.
Moderator: (criess) With all these leases expiring in the NFL is it your job to keep teams at home?
Rick Horrow: That's what the NFL wants me to do. My primary role with the NFL is to develop long term stadium deals in their current markets. So the city and team can feel secure that the team will be around for a long, long time. That's my primary goal.
Moderator: What ever happened to the trend of two-sports stadiums?
Rick Horrow: That's a great question. The 1960s and 70s perfected the doughnut stadium, round baseball, football stadiums like Atlanta, Cincy, Pitt, Philly, St. Louis, Oakland, and others. As each sport went its own way, there was an emphasis on building. The commissioner of the NFL has asked architects to come up with new designs to accommodate baseball and football and you may see that trend at the beginning of the next century.
Moderator: (texkan) follow up: So why didn't the Browns stay in Cleveland and wait for a new deal?
Rick Horrow: The Browns convinced the NFL that they couldn't get the attention of the politicians until they announced their departure. I know there are two sides to every story, but bottom line was, that the Browns (former Browns) now have a good deal in Baltimore and Cleveland will get a team no later than 3 years from now and have a new stadium to boot. I think most people can agree, that this process is working out in the end.
Moderator: (ApplePie) Why was the Metrodome good for baseball when the Twins were winning the World Series and drawing 3 million fans but now that the Twins stink they need a new stadium to be competitive?
Rick Horrow: Is this a question from Kirby Puckett? This is how it goes in sports. The only way a two team stadium makes economic sense anymore is if there are enough skyboxes and club seats and other amenities to go around. Any new baseball stadium would have those amenities. You're right in believing there is now more pressure on the Twins because 3 million attendance number is a distant memory, so they're looking for new ways to increase revenues from other sources.
Moderator: (JIMMY) The Tigers and Lions have discussed moving to a universal stadium, any thoughts?
Rick Horrow: Very interesting question. I know from my dealings with both teams that they both like certain aspects of downtown site locations, Mayor Archer is also a very dynamic guy. Maybe there's some things that can be worked out. We'll have to see how that works out. The Lions also have to deal with the existing lease at the Silverdome, so it gets complicated.
Moderator: (criess) So why was it so hard to find the Redskins a home?
Rick Horrow: Because it's been difficult for Jack Kent Cooke to find the right county in Virginia and then in Maryland to do business with, hopefully he's over that hump.
Moderator: When does this process ever end? Does it ever end?
Rick Horrow: It started when the Gladiators left the Roman Coliseum for a better stadium in Athens. Then when the Dodgers and Giants left to go California, it doesn't end, it only comes in cycles. The more long term stadium deals a team and a city can work out, the more stable the suitation will become.
Moderator: Switching gears for a bit - How has sports law changed over the years?
Rick Horrow: It's become much more practical and more in demand. When I graduated Harvard law in 1979, there was not sports law. I worked with a friend to co-teach the first sports law class beginining in '89 and over the past 6-7 years, there are now over 50 law schools that offer the course. As the sport's biz grows, the sport's law skills will be more in demand than ever.
Moderator: (Trapper) Have you any information as to why Orlando was unable to get MLB or get Tampa's football team? I mean I just want more professional sports here in addition to the Magic.
Rick Horrow: Are you tired of Disneyworld? If you are, I'm afraid news is not good, NFL is committed to keeping bucs in tampa and that deal is close to being finished. Tampa also built their domed stadium over 10 years ago, and it helped them get the Devils Rays for 1998, I'm afraid it's going to be difficult to expand a third team in FLA 1 1/2 hours away from St. Pete; I'm afraid you'll have to take up lawn bowling.
Moderator: What about the Edmonton Oilers situation - have you followed it?
Rick Horrow: I followed it as much as anybody can knowing the bizarre politics involved in that deal. The NHL is trying hard to protect its Canadian teams, now that Winnipeg and Quebec are gone. But the deal that Pocklington is looking for has to make long term economic sense. That's a real problem in a small market. Good luck.
Moderator: (johnnyg) Is Soldier Field fixable, or should the Bears look to a new stadium?
Rick Horrow: The Bears are looking for a new stadium and maybe the McDome is the answer. But remember, that when you look at these stadium issues around the country, teams shouldn't be looking for bandaids, they should be looking for deals that will produce comfortable stadiums well after turn of century and you should view Soldier Field from that perspective.
Moderator: (texkan) How about West Florida or New Orleans for MLB in the future?
Rick Horrow: New Orleans is a tough market to handle another major league sport. Plus, the Superdome has some site line problems and is probably too big for a major league baseball team in this day and age. But I know there are people trying to get MLB in New Orleans and they probably won't give up.
Moderator: After you consult on a stadium and it breaks (i.e Seattle) what are your concerns?
Rick Horrow: I'm a lawyer, not a contractor. I try to help financially. I don't get on the ladder with my cement. It's important to build a faciltiy right and there have been major advances in stadium architecture and design in last 20 years. So biz keeps getting better and stadiums keep getting safer and more comfortable.
Moderator: Thanks Rick for joining us tonight.
Moderator: Rick will be with us again in a few weeks.
Rick Horrow: I had fun doing that. Let's do that on a regular basis. Good night.